Cheswick - the Clenis/Clark hater
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=1395863&mesg_id=1396854&page=
Cheswick2.0 (1000+ posts) Mon Nov-29-04 11:11 AM
Response to Reply #69
75. you aren't making any sense
how is talking about whether or not Clark should be the nominee in 08 hijacking a thread about whether or not Clark should be the nominee in 2008?
This makes about as much sense as your insistence four years ago that Clinton and Lewinski were the great love affair of the century and that he would leave Hillary and marry her when he left office. For some unknown reason you had the hardest time admitting a sleazy affair was a sleazy affair. Maybe you are not the best judge of character?
This is my last post in this petty pissing match. Knock yourself out if it gives you satisfaction to conintue.
This is the DU member formerly known as Cheswick.
and my answer
robbedvoter (1000+ posts) Mon Nov-29-04 01:21 PM
Response to Reply #75
87. here's an idea: post on your pet issue and I promise I won't go thereEdited on Mon Nov-29-04 01:22 PM by robbedvoter
to scream: "everyone out of this thread, is a stupid idea and we need urgent 24/7 posting on the Clak08 thread. To do anything else is selfish and evil"If you really believe in something (other than sticking it to Clakies), try going about it in ways that actually rally people close to your beliefs rather than antagonoze them.
As for love affairs, I dunno" whacha talking about, Willis?". I am hardly the Harlequin novel type. I see however that you are as preachy towards Clinton's sexual life as you are towards Clarkies. You know the forum for that - and it ain't DU. It must be a deep seated sexual disturbance for you to stil fixate on my postings on the matter , years after. I am flatered, but get some help. A healthy, non-hypocritical sexual life could do wonders for your disposition.
It also unclogs the brain and helps with that multitasking you have so much trouble with. One can have sex, work to expose the stolen election, AND for a candidate for next time. The first one usually keeps the energy for the others positive and vibrant, rather than whiny and preachy.
Comeon, try! let go of Monica and live a normal life!
Monday, November 29, 2004
Saturday, November 27, 2004
To those asking for proof of theft
Sat Nov-27-04 08:25 PM
Response to Reply #84
88. "proof" is a red herring
No crime could ever be solved if investigators had to have proof before an investigation could be considered or intitiated. Of course there is no proof up to the standard you are asking for at this point. There could not be.
Even should a Republican operative go to the press tomorrow and say that he had been paid to steal votes for Bush it is likely that the right wingers would be able to spin that out of existence as they did the proof from Edmonds, Clarke, O'Neil and Wilson. In each case, and with this case of potential election theft, there is more than sufficient evidence to call for a full scale investigation for the purpose of discovering the proof that would hold up in court - if such proof does in fact exist.
If the police were constrained from questioning suspects until and unless they had "proof" how would they ever solve a crime?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=1393491&mesg_id=1393881&page=
Sat Nov-27-04 08:25 PM
Response to Reply #84
88. "proof" is a red herring
No crime could ever be solved if investigators had to have proof before an investigation could be considered or intitiated. Of course there is no proof up to the standard you are asking for at this point. There could not be.
Even should a Republican operative go to the press tomorrow and say that he had been paid to steal votes for Bush it is likely that the right wingers would be able to spin that out of existence as they did the proof from Edmonds, Clarke, O'Neil and Wilson. In each case, and with this case of potential election theft, there is more than sufficient evidence to call for a full scale investigation for the purpose of discovering the proof that would hold up in court - if such proof does in fact exist.
If the police were constrained from questioning suspects until and unless they had "proof" how would they ever solve a crime?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=1393491&mesg_id=1393881&page=
Friday, November 26, 2004
"I consider the Ukraine coverage another thug tactic"
Author concerned citizen
http://bartcopnation.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=2&topic_id=340673&mesg_id=340680&page=
to rub our noses in their lawlessness. This is part of their play-book. It was the same with 2000 election. No humility from Bush, in fact the opposite. He kept saying "I was elected because..." "People elected me becasue..." It was an open taunt.
Same goes with Valerie Plame.
They keep Novak in plain site, comfortable, ostentatious, contentious, as though he hasn't a care in the world.
It's the same with the Ukraine election. They're covering it, and making statements all the way to the top, because it's provoking, taunting, humiliating. It's how these people work.
Author concerned citizen
http://bartcopnation.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=2&topic_id=340673&mesg_id=340680&page=
to rub our noses in their lawlessness. This is part of their play-book. It was the same with 2000 election. No humility from Bush, in fact the opposite. He kept saying "I was elected because..." "People elected me becasue..." It was an open taunt.
Same goes with Valerie Plame.
They keep Novak in plain site, comfortable, ostentatious, contentious, as though he hasn't a care in the world.
It's the same with the Ukraine election. They're covering it, and making statements all the way to the top, because it's provoking, taunting, humiliating. It's how these people work.
and the follow up
m berst (1000+ posts) Tue Nov-16-04 05:32 PM
Response to Original message
54. and then after Clark dropped out I wrote...
It has been sad watching the Dean and Edwards campaigns collapse. Talking to their supporters, I hear the same despair from them that so many Clark supporters have been feeling.
I have been hanging with the Kucinich people, but hope is starting to die there, too. I can't find a political organization to be involved with, and our attempts to keep the old LFA people together has not been very successful. The Kucinich people are facing the same challenges now, and are asking each other "what now?"
I am feeling like 3 strikes and you're out. The stampede to the official Clark campaign - strike one. The crushing of the grass roots people - strike two. The stampede to Kerry - strike three.
There is some talk among Kucinich supporters of third party efforts. While I do think that there is a good possibility that the two parties will break up and reform into new parties, I don't think it will happen before November. The usual arguments are going on about working within the party, the danger of splitting the progressive vote and thereby giving Bush the election, the importance of staying true to your convictions, etc.
I am amazed at how quickly and thoroughly the national debate has collapsed. It seems that people want to close their eyes, and open them again in November to discover that it was all just a bad dream. Kerry will be elected, and Kerry will turn the country around and save us and we won't have to worry anymore. I certainly hope they are right, but in any case the real loss will be that if they are not, there will be nothing to fall back on.
I have no problem in principle rallying behind opposition to Bush, but why did that have to also mean the breaking up of the grass roots organizations, the end of the national discussion, and the crushing of people's hope and enthusiasm? That makes me suspicious of the DNC and the Kerry campaign. They haven't really been telling us to pull the lever for Kerry - which is all we are good for to them - rather, we had to stop talking and organizing, as well. Be quiet now, or you are helping Bush!
We were privileged to be part of a moment in history when many people had great hope and were reaching out to each other. My only hope now is that things don't get too rough for everyone in the coming years.
I think we will now see a bitter partisan campaign and an even split in the electorate, as we did in the last national election. It will play out in the mass media, and we will be reduced to spectators. We will be hearing a lot about gay marriage, I am afraid.
I was politically active in 1968. That year Eugene McCarthy ran an insurgent campaign in the Democratic primaries, and then Robert Kennedy jumped into the race and was close to having the nomination won when he was murdered. The party met in Chicago for the convention, and in defiance of the people's will nominated the party's choice, Hubert Humphrey. The city was like a war zone throughout the convention with thousands of demonstrators in the streets. George Wallace then entered the race as a third party candidate and siphoned off a critical number of Democratic voters, and Nixon won the election by a tiny margin.
I tell this story for purposes of comparison. There was quite a bit of discouragement, sadness, and hopelessness over the events in 1968, and that created a pall that hung over the country for decades. Yet I am seeing more discouragement, sadness, and hopelessness now then I did then. That is stunning to me.
I believe we are, figuratively speaking, living in the eye of a hurricane. I hope I am wrong, but the signs are there. For decades, right wing xenophobes have been peddling the line that "they hate us" in other countries. The irony is that "they" - overwhelmingly - didn't hate us until the xenophobes grabbed control of the government. Now, more and more people around the world do fear and hate us, and I am not just talking about people in the Middle East. Thank God for the European press as a "reality check" for us here, or we might succumb to the comforting illusion that things are just fine and that we are a bunch of chicken littles.
I stumbled onto the Sean Hannity radio program accidentally the other day, and was preoccupied with something else and let it run for a few minutes. I heard that "liberals are traitors" that "liberals want the terrorists to win" that the teacher's union is a "terrorist organization" that "liberals hate America and American values" and on and on in that vein. This is a national radio show with a huge following, and the host was demonizing half of the people in the country. This is pure hate, and it won't just go away, it will continue to poison people's minds. Substitute the word "Jews" for the word "liberals" and it could have come right out of Joseph Goebbel's ministry. The Nazi analogies are way overused, but not in this case.
But there I go again - shooting my mouth off instead of rallying behind Kerry.
Reason, critical thinking, and discussion having failed, we will now be forced to live the truth rather than to talk about it. We are about to find out the hard way whether we have been right or not.
Perhaps things will be just fine. Perhaps we were all worried about nothing. Perhaps life will go on without any major disasters. Perhaps the lessons from history don't apply this time.
It is an enormous gamble.
m berst (1000+ posts) Tue Nov-16-04 05:32 PM
Response to Original message
54. and then after Clark dropped out I wrote...
It has been sad watching the Dean and Edwards campaigns collapse. Talking to their supporters, I hear the same despair from them that so many Clark supporters have been feeling.
I have been hanging with the Kucinich people, but hope is starting to die there, too. I can't find a political organization to be involved with, and our attempts to keep the old LFA people together has not been very successful. The Kucinich people are facing the same challenges now, and are asking each other "what now?"
I am feeling like 3 strikes and you're out. The stampede to the official Clark campaign - strike one. The crushing of the grass roots people - strike two. The stampede to Kerry - strike three.
There is some talk among Kucinich supporters of third party efforts. While I do think that there is a good possibility that the two parties will break up and reform into new parties, I don't think it will happen before November. The usual arguments are going on about working within the party, the danger of splitting the progressive vote and thereby giving Bush the election, the importance of staying true to your convictions, etc.
I am amazed at how quickly and thoroughly the national debate has collapsed. It seems that people want to close their eyes, and open them again in November to discover that it was all just a bad dream. Kerry will be elected, and Kerry will turn the country around and save us and we won't have to worry anymore. I certainly hope they are right, but in any case the real loss will be that if they are not, there will be nothing to fall back on.
I have no problem in principle rallying behind opposition to Bush, but why did that have to also mean the breaking up of the grass roots organizations, the end of the national discussion, and the crushing of people's hope and enthusiasm? That makes me suspicious of the DNC and the Kerry campaign. They haven't really been telling us to pull the lever for Kerry - which is all we are good for to them - rather, we had to stop talking and organizing, as well. Be quiet now, or you are helping Bush!
We were privileged to be part of a moment in history when many people had great hope and were reaching out to each other. My only hope now is that things don't get too rough for everyone in the coming years.
I think we will now see a bitter partisan campaign and an even split in the electorate, as we did in the last national election. It will play out in the mass media, and we will be reduced to spectators. We will be hearing a lot about gay marriage, I am afraid.
I was politically active in 1968. That year Eugene McCarthy ran an insurgent campaign in the Democratic primaries, and then Robert Kennedy jumped into the race and was close to having the nomination won when he was murdered. The party met in Chicago for the convention, and in defiance of the people's will nominated the party's choice, Hubert Humphrey. The city was like a war zone throughout the convention with thousands of demonstrators in the streets. George Wallace then entered the race as a third party candidate and siphoned off a critical number of Democratic voters, and Nixon won the election by a tiny margin.
I tell this story for purposes of comparison. There was quite a bit of discouragement, sadness, and hopelessness over the events in 1968, and that created a pall that hung over the country for decades. Yet I am seeing more discouragement, sadness, and hopelessness now then I did then. That is stunning to me.
I believe we are, figuratively speaking, living in the eye of a hurricane. I hope I am wrong, but the signs are there. For decades, right wing xenophobes have been peddling the line that "they hate us" in other countries. The irony is that "they" - overwhelmingly - didn't hate us until the xenophobes grabbed control of the government. Now, more and more people around the world do fear and hate us, and I am not just talking about people in the Middle East. Thank God for the European press as a "reality check" for us here, or we might succumb to the comforting illusion that things are just fine and that we are a bunch of chicken littles.
I stumbled onto the Sean Hannity radio program accidentally the other day, and was preoccupied with something else and let it run for a few minutes. I heard that "liberals are traitors" that "liberals want the terrorists to win" that the teacher's union is a "terrorist organization" that "liberals hate America and American values" and on and on in that vein. This is a national radio show with a huge following, and the host was demonizing half of the people in the country. This is pure hate, and it won't just go away, it will continue to poison people's minds. Substitute the word "Jews" for the word "liberals" and it could have come right out of Joseph Goebbel's ministry. The Nazi analogies are way overused, but not in this case.
But there I go again - shooting my mouth off instead of rallying behind Kerry.
Reason, critical thinking, and discussion having failed, we will now be forced to live the truth rather than to talk about it. We are about to find out the hard way whether we have been right or not.
Perhaps things will be just fine. Perhaps we were all worried about nothing. Perhaps life will go on without any major disasters. Perhaps the lessons from history don't apply this time.
It is an enormous gamble.
DU post - on Clark's campaign
m berst (1000+ posts) Tue Nov-16-04 05:22 PM
Response to Original message
53. dug back into the archives
My last post before Clark dropped out-
We may be in the final hours of the Clark campaign tonight, and I have been thinking about the future. I have been contemplating several seemingly unrelated ideas as I watched the campaign unfold, and they finally coalesced in my mind. What have we learned from the Clark campaign? What is the common thread?
At the Kucinich forum there is a Wesley Clark thread, and naturally I posted there. Charges were being made against Clark, but rather than defend him I posted a positive statement of support.
Whom do I want to win?
In the Clark campaign we saw the professional campaign people cut the legs out from under the grass roots groups. Then we saw the grass roots groups controlled by people who seemed determined to stomp out spontaneity, creativity and motivation. We saw Clark struggle, and fail to get his message across in the various media outlets. We saw the Democratic core voters rally around a tried and true Democrat. Whom do I want to win? The American people.
What is the common thread?
It is this: the people who seized control of the Clark campaign and the Democratic party are upper middle class white college educated liberals, with a distinct East and West coast bias. These are the same people who dominate the media that isn't controlled by the neo-cons. These are the same people rallying around Kerry.
I believe that there is a liberal elite, and that they are driving the Democratic party away from it's roots as a progressive working class party. Who is left out? Most of the potential Democratic voters. The minority communities, the working people, those who don't embrace the looking down their noses more organic and politically sophisticated than thou crowd.
The people aren't too stupid to get the message. The message is dumbed down by the professional liberals and by the media elites, because they are protecting their perks and privileges.
The future for me is to work with the forgotten, the ignored, the disenfranchised, the hurting, the marginalized... the majority. Those are the people who could have put Clark in the White House. The beautiful people didn't want them at the party.
It is hard for me to imagine a scenario that could so thoroughly destroy the possibilities that LFA and General Clark's vision promised than the events we have watched unfold over the last few months. That destruction, in my view, is the result of the failures of the organization, both official and unofficial.
The organization always seemed to me to be working against the General's vision. We warned of this here very early in the campaign, and the response was pretty unambiguous - "go away!"
Many have expressed
the unique qualities that Clark brought to the race, and why it is so difficult for so many to get on the DNC orchestrated Kerry bandwagon.
- Clark showed us that progressive ideas could be expressed in a way that did not threaten or offend the sensibilities of the more conservative people.
- His incredible record of service and achievement would have served to further legitimize those progressive ideas.
- Clark could have actually ended the "Republican Revolution" rather than just slow it down a little.
- Clark could have been a President for all of us, not just half of us.
- Clark gave people hope.
If someone can explain to me how Kerry could do those 5 things, or convince me that the times call for less, or explain to me why we need to give them up and settle for something less, then I will consider jumping on the bandwagon.
After 35 years of voting straight Democratic party ticket in every election, I will not be doing that automatically this time. I enrolled many, many conservatives in the Clark campaign, and they are saddened today about the future of the country. They did not sign on only to be told to support whomever the DNC annointed, and neither did I.
I don't agree that the campaign was ever solely about taking back the White House, nor do I recall it being about "Clark or whomever as long as it isn't Bush."
Whether this means working within the party to overturn the elitist leadership, or forming a third party, it is too soon to tell. It is bait and switch, however, for people to now say that removing Bush was the only or even the main objective all along. I cringed the first time I heard a Clark supporter say "eyes on the prize" because I feared it would lead to this.
Many Clark supporters are not Democrats, and to suggest that they should now embrace Kerry insults their intelligence and does a disservice to Wes Clark's original vision that called us to service. So many new people were brought into the process by the Clark campaign. They weren't enrolling in DNC politics as usual.
If our enthusiasm and hope is so easily and instantly transferrable to Kerry, then I have to question just what it was we were hopeful and enthusiastic about. Removing Bush? I think not. Many of us want to change the conditions that allowed the crisis we are in, not just swap out occupants of offices. The DNC has stood by and made compromise after compromise with the RNC. Leaders in the Democratic party have been up to their eyeballs in political corruption and "go along to get along" strategies. If not for that, we wouldn't be in the mess we are in.
There was a revealing exchange between Clark supporters today. Many who are saying "ok I am ready to go to work for Kerry" are discovering that there IS no Kerry campaign that they can find. We have seen from many of the communications to us from staffers that our suspicions that Kerry is the hand-picked candidate of the DNC leadership, and that we were cheated out of having a voice in the process are true. But I guess I should keep my "eyes on the prize" and be quiet about this.
People are having difficulty connecting up with the Kerry campaign because there WAS no Kerry campaign. It was a DNC campaign. The emperor is wearing no clothes.
But..... it is ok to pull the shenanigans that the DNC pulled, because we need to stop the shenanigans of the Bush adminstration? I came aboard the Clark campaign to stop ALL of the anti-democratic shenanigans, not to swap one set for another. I, and many others, came on board the Clark campaign to save our constitution and to restore decency to the political arena, not to sign on for "getting rid of" Bush as the "prime mission." The problems are just a teensy bit bigger than that, wouldn't you say? Or if they aren't quite a bit bigger, why the scare tactics about Bush to get us into the Kerry camp as quickly as possible? I resent the bait-and-switch tactic that now tells us we signed up for a different mission then the one we thought we were signing on for. "Getting on the program" behind Kerry just means "shut up" in any case, it seems to me. I don't find that very persuasive. I will work for a campaign that allows me to retain my freedom of speech, thank you very much.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2701711
m berst (1000+ posts) Tue Nov-16-04 05:22 PM
Response to Original message
53. dug back into the archives
My last post before Clark dropped out-
We may be in the final hours of the Clark campaign tonight, and I have been thinking about the future. I have been contemplating several seemingly unrelated ideas as I watched the campaign unfold, and they finally coalesced in my mind. What have we learned from the Clark campaign? What is the common thread?
At the Kucinich forum there is a Wesley Clark thread, and naturally I posted there. Charges were being made against Clark, but rather than defend him I posted a positive statement of support.
Whom do I want to win?
In the Clark campaign we saw the professional campaign people cut the legs out from under the grass roots groups. Then we saw the grass roots groups controlled by people who seemed determined to stomp out spontaneity, creativity and motivation. We saw Clark struggle, and fail to get his message across in the various media outlets. We saw the Democratic core voters rally around a tried and true Democrat. Whom do I want to win? The American people.
What is the common thread?
It is this: the people who seized control of the Clark campaign and the Democratic party are upper middle class white college educated liberals, with a distinct East and West coast bias. These are the same people who dominate the media that isn't controlled by the neo-cons. These are the same people rallying around Kerry.
I believe that there is a liberal elite, and that they are driving the Democratic party away from it's roots as a progressive working class party. Who is left out? Most of the potential Democratic voters. The minority communities, the working people, those who don't embrace the looking down their noses more organic and politically sophisticated than thou crowd.
The people aren't too stupid to get the message. The message is dumbed down by the professional liberals and by the media elites, because they are protecting their perks and privileges.
The future for me is to work with the forgotten, the ignored, the disenfranchised, the hurting, the marginalized... the majority. Those are the people who could have put Clark in the White House. The beautiful people didn't want them at the party.
It is hard for me to imagine a scenario that could so thoroughly destroy the possibilities that LFA and General Clark's vision promised than the events we have watched unfold over the last few months. That destruction, in my view, is the result of the failures of the organization, both official and unofficial.
The organization always seemed to me to be working against the General's vision. We warned of this here very early in the campaign, and the response was pretty unambiguous - "go away!"
Many have expressed
the unique qualities that Clark brought to the race, and why it is so difficult for so many to get on the DNC orchestrated Kerry bandwagon.
- Clark showed us that progressive ideas could be expressed in a way that did not threaten or offend the sensibilities of the more conservative people.
- His incredible record of service and achievement would have served to further legitimize those progressive ideas.
- Clark could have actually ended the "Republican Revolution" rather than just slow it down a little.
- Clark could have been a President for all of us, not just half of us.
- Clark gave people hope.
If someone can explain to me how Kerry could do those 5 things, or convince me that the times call for less, or explain to me why we need to give them up and settle for something less, then I will consider jumping on the bandwagon.
After 35 years of voting straight Democratic party ticket in every election, I will not be doing that automatically this time. I enrolled many, many conservatives in the Clark campaign, and they are saddened today about the future of the country. They did not sign on only to be told to support whomever the DNC annointed, and neither did I.
I don't agree that the campaign was ever solely about taking back the White House, nor do I recall it being about "Clark or whomever as long as it isn't Bush."
Whether this means working within the party to overturn the elitist leadership, or forming a third party, it is too soon to tell. It is bait and switch, however, for people to now say that removing Bush was the only or even the main objective all along. I cringed the first time I heard a Clark supporter say "eyes on the prize" because I feared it would lead to this.
Many Clark supporters are not Democrats, and to suggest that they should now embrace Kerry insults their intelligence and does a disservice to Wes Clark's original vision that called us to service. So many new people were brought into the process by the Clark campaign. They weren't enrolling in DNC politics as usual.
If our enthusiasm and hope is so easily and instantly transferrable to Kerry, then I have to question just what it was we were hopeful and enthusiastic about. Removing Bush? I think not. Many of us want to change the conditions that allowed the crisis we are in, not just swap out occupants of offices. The DNC has stood by and made compromise after compromise with the RNC. Leaders in the Democratic party have been up to their eyeballs in political corruption and "go along to get along" strategies. If not for that, we wouldn't be in the mess we are in.
There was a revealing exchange between Clark supporters today. Many who are saying "ok I am ready to go to work for Kerry" are discovering that there IS no Kerry campaign that they can find. We have seen from many of the communications to us from staffers that our suspicions that Kerry is the hand-picked candidate of the DNC leadership, and that we were cheated out of having a voice in the process are true. But I guess I should keep my "eyes on the prize" and be quiet about this.
People are having difficulty connecting up with the Kerry campaign because there WAS no Kerry campaign. It was a DNC campaign. The emperor is wearing no clothes.
But..... it is ok to pull the shenanigans that the DNC pulled, because we need to stop the shenanigans of the Bush adminstration? I came aboard the Clark campaign to stop ALL of the anti-democratic shenanigans, not to swap one set for another. I, and many others, came on board the Clark campaign to save our constitution and to restore decency to the political arena, not to sign on for "getting rid of" Bush as the "prime mission." The problems are just a teensy bit bigger than that, wouldn't you say? Or if they aren't quite a bit bigger, why the scare tactics about Bush to get us into the Kerry camp as quickly as possible? I resent the bait-and-switch tactic that now tells us we signed up for a different mission then the one we thought we were signing on for. "Getting on the program" behind Kerry just means "shut up" in any case, it seems to me. I don't find that very persuasive. I will work for a campaign that allows me to retain my freedom of speech, thank you very much.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2701711
Tuesday, November 23, 2004
W"S EXCELLENT ADVENTURE
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=2741571&mesg_id=2741615&page=
MrBenchley (1000+ posts) Tue Nov-23-04 10:30 AM
12. The perfect end to a perfect trip...
He insulted his hosts and demonstrated public cowardice...
"SANTIAGO, Chile (CNN) -- Plans for a state dinner for President Bush at Chile's presidential palace were scratched Sunday after the United States insisted on security measures that Chile called unacceptable.
The change came a day after Chilean security guards temporarily blocked one of Bush's Secret Service agents from entering an official dinner.
For the Sunday event, the Secret Service insisted all guests -- totaling more than 230 -- pass through a metal detector, a top level Chilean Foreign Ministry official told CNN. U.S. officials did not dispute this account.
President Ricardo Lagos believed the measure was humiliating for guests, the Chilean official said."
http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/americas/11/21/bush.dinne...
....babbled in public like an idiot....
"In a joint public appearance with Lagos, Bush meant to take note of plans for January 30 elections in Iraq, but said instead: "I noticed today that the elections are on schedule for June the 30th."
And Bush said he and Lagos were determined "to bring drug trafficking to bear," presumably a mix-up with his frequently stated eagerness to crush that global scourge.
Referring to the relative innocence of the days before the September 11, 2001 strikes, Bush told executives on Saturday: "We thought we were protected forever from trade policy or terrorist attacks because oceans protected us."
In that same speech, Bush meant to praise the Asia-Pacific Economic Forum (APEC) meeting here, but instead declared: "Our nation is a Pacific country, as well. And that's why the OPEC conferences are so important." "
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/20041122/t...
...and finished up by sashaying around in public with his pants open.
By the way, the look on Putin's face is priceless.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=2741571&mesg_id=2741615&page=
MrBenchley (1000+ posts) Tue Nov-23-04 10:30 AM
12. The perfect end to a perfect trip...
He insulted his hosts and demonstrated public cowardice...
"SANTIAGO, Chile (CNN) -- Plans for a state dinner for President Bush at Chile's presidential palace were scratched Sunday after the United States insisted on security measures that Chile called unacceptable.
The change came a day after Chilean security guards temporarily blocked one of Bush's Secret Service agents from entering an official dinner.
For the Sunday event, the Secret Service insisted all guests -- totaling more than 230 -- pass through a metal detector, a top level Chilean Foreign Ministry official told CNN. U.S. officials did not dispute this account.
President Ricardo Lagos believed the measure was humiliating for guests, the Chilean official said."
http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/americas/11/21/bush.dinne...
....babbled in public like an idiot....
"In a joint public appearance with Lagos, Bush meant to take note of plans for January 30 elections in Iraq, but said instead: "I noticed today that the elections are on schedule for June the 30th."
And Bush said he and Lagos were determined "to bring drug trafficking to bear," presumably a mix-up with his frequently stated eagerness to crush that global scourge.
Referring to the relative innocence of the days before the September 11, 2001 strikes, Bush told executives on Saturday: "We thought we were protected forever from trade policy or terrorist attacks because oceans protected us."
In that same speech, Bush meant to praise the Asia-Pacific Economic Forum (APEC) meeting here, but instead declared: "Our nation is a Pacific country, as well. And that's why the OPEC conferences are so important." "
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/20041122/t...
...and finished up by sashaying around in public with his pants open.
By the way, the look on Putin's face is priceless.
Mesg #340305 "My favorite analogy: Bush = Leopoldo Galtieri"
Author tech98
http://bartcopnation.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=2&topic_id=340295
Dictator of Argentina. A dim-witted tool who launched the invasion of the Falkland Islands as a distraction from economic malaise, cronyism and incompetence.
Excerpts from The Economist's obituary:
Leopoldo Fortunato Galtieri, a failed dictator, died on January 12th, 2003 aged 76
He might have been forgiven by at least some of his fellow Argentines for his ruthlessness, but not for his stupidity.
Incompetence in civilian life, in commerce or in the professions, can have serious consequences. In government it can be disastrous, as it was for Argentina in 1982, when General Galtieri was the unelected military president. Argentina was going through one of its regular periods of high inflation and poor growth...Day after day crowds gathered outside the presidential palace to jeer at the general. The protests were largely forgotten when he announced that Argentina was to seize the Falklands, a small group of islands in the south Atlantic that had been a British possession since 1833.
Such a patriotic gesture is an old remedy, and has had a degree of success. Hitler reinforced his popularity by sending troops into the Rhineland in 1936 against French wishes. These days Pakistan's self-appointed president, General Musharraf, is routinely bellicose towards India.
Britain, under Margaret Thatcher, buckled on its rusty armour and dispatched every warship, troopship and rowing boat available to the Falklands, 13,000km away....On June 14th the Argentines surrendered.
There seems to be no dispute that high office fazed him. “Only Johnny Walker is crying”, was the headline in a Buenos Aires newspaper in a reference to the general's dependence on Scotch whisky.
When he joined the army as a young man he was interested in military engineering, and probably his ambitions should have stopped there. While a lieutenant he was noticed by American advisers attached to the Argentine army and in 1949 attended the School of the Americas...He is believed to be the only student in the history of the school to have failed the course.
“What most puzzles me”, says Oscar Raul Cardoso, an Argentine political analyst, “is how someone so mediocre in all senses reached the top.” Could it happen again? The answer is probably yes, again and again.
Author tech98
http://bartcopnation.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=2&topic_id=340295
Dictator of Argentina. A dim-witted tool who launched the invasion of the Falkland Islands as a distraction from economic malaise, cronyism and incompetence.
Excerpts from The Economist's obituary:
Leopoldo Fortunato Galtieri, a failed dictator, died on January 12th, 2003 aged 76
He might have been forgiven by at least some of his fellow Argentines for his ruthlessness, but not for his stupidity.
Incompetence in civilian life, in commerce or in the professions, can have serious consequences. In government it can be disastrous, as it was for Argentina in 1982, when General Galtieri was the unelected military president. Argentina was going through one of its regular periods of high inflation and poor growth...Day after day crowds gathered outside the presidential palace to jeer at the general. The protests were largely forgotten when he announced that Argentina was to seize the Falklands, a small group of islands in the south Atlantic that had been a British possession since 1833.
Such a patriotic gesture is an old remedy, and has had a degree of success. Hitler reinforced his popularity by sending troops into the Rhineland in 1936 against French wishes. These days Pakistan's self-appointed president, General Musharraf, is routinely bellicose towards India.
Britain, under Margaret Thatcher, buckled on its rusty armour and dispatched every warship, troopship and rowing boat available to the Falklands, 13,000km away....On June 14th the Argentines surrendered.
There seems to be no dispute that high office fazed him. “Only Johnny Walker is crying”, was the headline in a Buenos Aires newspaper in a reference to the general's dependence on Scotch whisky.
When he joined the army as a young man he was interested in military engineering, and probably his ambitions should have stopped there. While a lieutenant he was noticed by American advisers attached to the Argentine army and in 1949 attended the School of the Americas...He is believed to be the only student in the history of the school to have failed the course.
“What most puzzles me”, says Oscar Raul Cardoso, an Argentine political analyst, “is how someone so mediocre in all senses reached the top.” Could it happen again? The answer is probably yes, again and again.
Monday, November 22, 2004
TailWgnDog
Mon Nov-22-04 05:46 AM
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=1381141#1381156
Response to Original message
6. The rightwing political element in this country has . . .
an agenda. Much of it turns around legalities. Their agenda is to turn back the legal clock of time to Lochner, (1905).
This was a time before President Franklin D. Roosevelt's "Big Deal" expansion of the federal government that gave our congress great power to over-ride state laws.
So in effect, the rightwingnuts want to erase about 100 years of congressional and U.S. Supreme Court laws. Seriously. It would call back the time when corporations were untouchable, ran rampant over the country and allowed what at that time was called "the gilded age" and "baron robbers."
Envision the movie "Titanic" and the split between the classes of the ship's passengers being only two: upper class and "steerage" of the low class. No middle class. None. That's when corporations had no boundaries, no laws to regulate them, and when they trammeled over the (no) rights of individuals.
This is the GWBush agenda. And GWBush has *snowed* and mislead and lied to people, pandering to their religious fears in attempts to pull together a coalition of voters in order to achieve his agenda.
Which is why the more educated people across the nation did NOT vote for GWBush. And which is why GWBush and Company belittled educated ppl, etc., etc., etc.
Simple, really."
To which I added that this agenda makes the "party of the middle class" obsolete. Who'll represent the majority?
.
Mon Nov-22-04 05:46 AM
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=1381141#1381156
Response to Original message
6. The rightwing political element in this country has . . .
an agenda. Much of it turns around legalities. Their agenda is to turn back the legal clock of time to Lochner, (1905).
This was a time before President Franklin D. Roosevelt's "Big Deal" expansion of the federal government that gave our congress great power to over-ride state laws.
So in effect, the rightwingnuts want to erase about 100 years of congressional and U.S. Supreme Court laws. Seriously. It would call back the time when corporations were untouchable, ran rampant over the country and allowed what at that time was called "the gilded age" and "baron robbers."
Envision the movie "Titanic" and the split between the classes of the ship's passengers being only two: upper class and "steerage" of the low class. No middle class. None. That's when corporations had no boundaries, no laws to regulate them, and when they trammeled over the (no) rights of individuals.
This is the GWBush agenda. And GWBush has *snowed* and mislead and lied to people, pandering to their religious fears in attempts to pull together a coalition of voters in order to achieve his agenda.
Which is why the more educated people across the nation did NOT vote for GWBush. And which is why GWBush and Company belittled educated ppl, etc., etc., etc.
Simple, really."
To which I added that this agenda makes the "party of the middle class" obsolete. Who'll represent the majority?
.
Saturday, November 20, 2004
http://www.gawker.com/news/culture/stalker/gawker-stalker-bungalow-8-nycs-best-crack-den-026053.php
Celeb gossip site gawker reports:
Freemans tuesday night the 16th of nov. the bush twins along with 2 massive secret service men tried to have dinner they were told by the maitre 'd that they were full and would be for the next 4 years upon hearing the entire restaurant cheered and did a round of shots it was amazing!!! Ed: We're hearing that this is actually true.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Celeb gossip site gawker reports:
Freemans tuesday night the 16th of nov. the bush twins along with 2 massive secret service men tried to have dinner they were told by the maitre 'd that they were full and would be for the next 4 years upon hearing the entire restaurant cheered and did a round of shots it was amazing!!! Ed: We're hearing that this is actually true.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Friday, November 19, 2004
davhill
Original message
Cult of Personality
As I drove around the bend in I-4 in downtown Orlando I was greeted with a billboard displaying a huge 20' visage of Bush with the inscription "Our Leader". It was not left over electioneering; it was just recently erected. Such billboards are characteristic of dictatorships everywhere. I never thought I would see one in my own country. Are such things popping up all over the rest of the country too?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2720788
Original message
Cult of Personality
As I drove around the bend in I-4 in downtown Orlando I was greeted with a billboard displaying a huge 20' visage of Bush with the inscription "Our Leader". It was not left over electioneering; it was just recently erected. Such billboards are characteristic of dictatorships everywhere. I never thought I would see one in my own country. Are such things popping up all over the rest of the country too?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2720788
Monday, November 15, 2004
Digby - the perfect candidate?
The Pageant
Atrios is full of 'tude these days and rightly so. This nonsense about finding leaders who are immune from GOP criticism is just ridiculous. I thought we all understood that the attack machine has no relationship to the truth. There is no such thing as an acceptable Democrat anymore. There isn't even such a thing as an acceptable moderat republican anymore. Look what they are doing to Specter.
I simply cannot believe that after the last twelve years any Democrat still believes that there are limits to what the Republicans will say to assassinate someone's character or how far the SCLM will go to promulgate it if the story is juicy enough. Perhaps Mr Nelson needs to make a run for the presidency and see if all that Red state love sees him through.
The Pageant
Atrios is full of 'tude these days and rightly so. This nonsense about finding leaders who are immune from GOP criticism is just ridiculous. I thought we all understood that the attack machine has no relationship to the truth. There is no such thing as an acceptable Democrat anymore. There isn't even such a thing as an acceptable moderat republican anymore. Look what they are doing to Specter.
I simply cannot believe that after the last twelve years any Democrat still believes that there are limits to what the Republicans will say to assassinate someone's character or how far the SCLM will go to promulgate it if the story is juicy enough. Perhaps Mr Nelson needs to make a run for the presidency and see if all that Red state love sees him through.
Thursday, November 11, 2004
"Good heavens ..."
Author samela
you've drunk the Kool-Aid again, but this time from listening, I suspect, to too much AM talk radio.
Democrats bowing to PETA? Give me a break. I missed that one.
You have total amnesia about what this election was about. It was about jobs lost to outsousrcing. It was about health insurance costs rising. It was about being mislead into a war in Iraq. It was about civil liberties assaulted in the Patriot Act. And then, in the end, it was about a tape mailed in from Osama.
Bush and Cheney were not talking about guns. They were not talking about gay marriage. They were not talking about animal rights or wrongs. They were not talking about abortion. THose things were talked about on the pulpits of the churches whose membership lists they obtained. It was a backdoor campaign? WHY? Because most of the nation disagrees with them on these subjects, and they have to whisper them to this tiny but important part of their base in the dark of night, in the back rooms, and in code. They can't reveal them to the rest of the nation ... who poll after poll show to be in agreement with Democrats' openly stated positions on a whole range of these issues.
The Democrats put on a convention show wrapped in flags and tough talk and patriotic songs. John Kerry and John Edwards sat on front porches and addressed groups of believers in churches. They opposed gay marriage in favor of civil unions (as 60% of the nation agrees), they demurred on abortion by saying their personal beliefs could not interfere with the law of the land and the will of the people. They donned duck-hunters garbs and rifles. What do you want them to do? Start espousing trickle-down economics and advocate tax cuts? Start calling homsexuals the spawn of Satan and telling women their place should be in the kitchens?
The margin of error in this election was no doubt the 4 million more evangelical Christians the Republicans managed to get out with their push polls and whisper campaigns. That pushed them over the top. Do NOT confuse that with the beliefs and values of a majority of Americans. Iraq + Terror was the main issue of this campaign. The media allowed Kerry to be beat up on in questions regarding his national security credentials in time of war. The terror warnings and Osama tapes didn't help. A majority of Americans (but only barely, and perhaps not even legally) decided to leave well enough alone. They'll come to regret it, I have no doubt.
In the meantime, your proposal to sell off gays and women and embrace guns and yahoos ... well, it occurs to me maybe you're supportin the wrong side. It's never to late to re-register as a Republican. The rest of us feel good about our mainstream Democratic values.
Author samela
you've drunk the Kool-Aid again, but this time from listening, I suspect, to too much AM talk radio.
Democrats bowing to PETA? Give me a break. I missed that one.
You have total amnesia about what this election was about. It was about jobs lost to outsousrcing. It was about health insurance costs rising. It was about being mislead into a war in Iraq. It was about civil liberties assaulted in the Patriot Act. And then, in the end, it was about a tape mailed in from Osama.
Bush and Cheney were not talking about guns. They were not talking about gay marriage. They were not talking about animal rights or wrongs. They were not talking about abortion. THose things were talked about on the pulpits of the churches whose membership lists they obtained. It was a backdoor campaign? WHY? Because most of the nation disagrees with them on these subjects, and they have to whisper them to this tiny but important part of their base in the dark of night, in the back rooms, and in code. They can't reveal them to the rest of the nation ... who poll after poll show to be in agreement with Democrats' openly stated positions on a whole range of these issues.
The Democrats put on a convention show wrapped in flags and tough talk and patriotic songs. John Kerry and John Edwards sat on front porches and addressed groups of believers in churches. They opposed gay marriage in favor of civil unions (as 60% of the nation agrees), they demurred on abortion by saying their personal beliefs could not interfere with the law of the land and the will of the people. They donned duck-hunters garbs and rifles. What do you want them to do? Start espousing trickle-down economics and advocate tax cuts? Start calling homsexuals the spawn of Satan and telling women their place should be in the kitchens?
The margin of error in this election was no doubt the 4 million more evangelical Christians the Republicans managed to get out with their push polls and whisper campaigns. That pushed them over the top. Do NOT confuse that with the beliefs and values of a majority of Americans. Iraq + Terror was the main issue of this campaign. The media allowed Kerry to be beat up on in questions regarding his national security credentials in time of war. The terror warnings and Osama tapes didn't help. A majority of Americans (but only barely, and perhaps not even legally) decided to leave well enough alone. They'll come to regret it, I have no doubt.
In the meantime, your proposal to sell off gays and women and embrace guns and yahoos ... well, it occurs to me maybe you're supportin the wrong side. It's never to late to re-register as a Republican. The rest of us feel good about our mainstream Democratic values.
Gone To The Dogs (a poem)
Gone To The Dogs
(If the Democratic Party were a lovable mutt)
by
trotcop
As his moderate tail,
Moves to the right,
The lovable mutt,
Gives chase with great delight.
The years roll by,
He makes no gain,
Then one day he feels,
A sharp searing pain.
He realizes too late,
All the time he's let pass.
The only thing that he accomplished,
Is he bit his own ass.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1346790
Gone To The Dogs
(If the Democratic Party were a lovable mutt)
by
trotcop
As his moderate tail,
Moves to the right,
The lovable mutt,
Gives chase with great delight.
The years roll by,
He makes no gain,
Then one day he feels,
A sharp searing pain.
He realizes too late,
All the time he's let pass.
The only thing that he accomplished,
Is he bit his own ass.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1346790
Monday, November 08, 2004
New reality
I submit we are now "studying" such a new post election manufactured reality: "It was the values all along"
The quote:
''That's not the way the world really works anymore,'' he continued. ''We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality -- judiciously, as you will -- we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors . . . and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do.''
and this is what we now study:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/11/05/opinion/meyer/main653931.shtml
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Moral Values Malarkey
WASHINGTON, Nov. 5, 2004
This Against the Grain commentary was written by CBSNews.com's Dick Meyer.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Let’s try to snuff this election’s new Big Theory before it becomes Conventional Wisdom, although it’s probably too late.
snip
While the nexus of issues boiled into the words "moral values" certainly were a big factor in this election, it’s being exaggerated partly because of the oddities of the poll itself and partly because the Big Theory conforms with what Republican strategists want you to believe.
First, the poll: If the poll had been worded or constructed only slightly differently, moral values would not have been the top issue. We’re building a worldview out of a small, odd vista.
Sunday, November 07, 2004
To those who hope in "behind the curtains action"
31. From the reality vased community - if interested:
"Kerry forces planned for a
battle that never was" (by Patrick Healy, Boston Globe, Thursday Nov.
4, The Nation section, p. A340.)
It was Cahill who
shared the (not good) news..to the nominee who was working off of five
hours of sleep...And while a team of lawyers pressed to go to court on
Ohio at 8 am to challenge the state's vote-counting procedures, Cahill
said, KERRY DID NOT SEE THE POINT.
'He immediately just decided that in order to go forward in a time of
war, an election lawsuit was not something that he wanted to put the
country through' Cahill said."
Mike Papantonio - lawyer on the campaign was on Ring on Fire (Air America) with Reno (black comedienne).(he usually co-hosts with Bobby Kennedy) She asked him why was he turned around from the tarmac - en route for Ohio - election night. After repeated questioning, he admitted that "certain elements in the party thought it would make us look like cry babies"
he proceeded to tell her "get over it" about 10 times to which I am happy to say she yelled: "No way I am"
31. From the reality vased community - if interested:
"Kerry forces planned for a
battle that never was" (by Patrick Healy, Boston Globe, Thursday Nov.
4, The Nation section, p. A340.)
It was Cahill who
shared the (not good) news..to the nominee who was working off of five
hours of sleep...And while a team of lawyers pressed to go to court on
Ohio at 8 am to challenge the state's vote-counting procedures, Cahill
said, KERRY DID NOT SEE THE POINT.
'He immediately just decided that in order to go forward in a time of
war, an election lawsuit was not something that he wanted to put the
country through' Cahill said."
Mike Papantonio - lawyer on the campaign was on Ring on Fire (Air America) with Reno (black comedienne).(he usually co-hosts with Bobby Kennedy) She asked him why was he turned around from the tarmac - en route for Ohio - election night. After repeated questioning, he admitted that "certain elements in the party thought it would make us look like cry babies"
he proceeded to tell her "get over it" about 10 times to which I am happy to say she yelled: "No way I am"
Saturday, November 06, 2004
PeteNYC
Kerry will soldier on - the battle is just beginning
I unintentionally offended some DUers by saying "Kerry isn't about to "pull a Gore." I admire and respect Al Gore, and my reference was specifically to his decision to lay low for a relatively long period of time after SCOTUS robbed him of the presidency.
I don't know what's going to happen about voting problems/theft/anomalies, but I DO know - as I said in the previous thread - that Kerry's voice will be loud and clear in the coming days, weeks, and months. He's got the support of millions of Americans. He won't let go of the issues he fought for.
Take heart. The next four years are going to see an unprecedented movement on the part of Dems, liberals, progressives to hold * accountable for EVERY fuck up.
America is going to have a major case of buyer's remorse when all is said and done.
Patrick
Sat Nov-06-04 02:29 PM
Response to Reply #8
15. Can't he add the consequences?
Never mind the vote count. The country has been tested and sifted. The shit is immobilized at the top and I include democrats who have deceived us for four long years by not stopping but increasing fraud then marching us into the guns and then like Bonnie Prince Charlie, fleeing to their mansions.
The worst part is not that flight, but that pretension they are "still in the game". Hello, the game is no longer there. They are the Great Auk preening the last feathers, basking in the twilight of their demise.
The carrier pigeon never asked us to join it. All hail the graciousness of the carrier pigeon.
There is nothing but tyranny and anarchy in fact with the spotty official remnants in their Montaigne Towers pretending, pretending, they are the last parts of America.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2619234
Kerry will soldier on - the battle is just beginning
I unintentionally offended some DUers by saying "Kerry isn't about to "pull a Gore." I admire and respect Al Gore, and my reference was specifically to his decision to lay low for a relatively long period of time after SCOTUS robbed him of the presidency.
I don't know what's going to happen about voting problems/theft/anomalies, but I DO know - as I said in the previous thread - that Kerry's voice will be loud and clear in the coming days, weeks, and months. He's got the support of millions of Americans. He won't let go of the issues he fought for.
Take heart. The next four years are going to see an unprecedented movement on the part of Dems, liberals, progressives to hold * accountable for EVERY fuck up.
America is going to have a major case of buyer's remorse when all is said and done.
Patrick
Sat Nov-06-04 02:29 PM
Response to Reply #8
15. Can't he add the consequences?
Never mind the vote count. The country has been tested and sifted. The shit is immobilized at the top and I include democrats who have deceived us for four long years by not stopping but increasing fraud then marching us into the guns and then like Bonnie Prince Charlie, fleeing to their mansions.
The worst part is not that flight, but that pretension they are "still in the game". Hello, the game is no longer there. They are the Great Auk preening the last feathers, basking in the twilight of their demise.
The carrier pigeon never asked us to join it. All hail the graciousness of the carrier pigeon.
There is nothing but tyranny and anarchy in fact with the spotty official remnants in their Montaigne Towers pretending, pretending, they are the last parts of America.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2619234
Friday, November 05, 2004
I came full circle
I left Ceausescu's Romania for freedom. The stupid think is that for 20 years I never gave it a second thought. Then, just as I became a trekkie when it was over - from watching reruns - I started to get the taste of democracy years after it disappeared. I got engaged in 2000 when I felt personally robbed and thought - at every step that I was empowered. Turned out it was all a lie.
The ruling party just got rulinger"
said Mark Crispin Miller
So, I am back to enjoying my family, my garden, my city, my friends - for as long as they let us - then contemplate flight.
Still, I will have to figure out a way of continuing the fight to bring back democracy - eventhough I doubt I will live to see it (Ceausescu ruled for 35 years). But someone has to keep it going. So, without illusions, unicorns, raibows and rah, rah, rah - I am still in it.
It was stolen, damn it - and we need to bring back elections. Some day.
I left Ceausescu's Romania for freedom. The stupid think is that for 20 years I never gave it a second thought. Then, just as I became a trekkie when it was over - from watching reruns - I started to get the taste of democracy years after it disappeared. I got engaged in 2000 when I felt personally robbed and thought - at every step that I was empowered. Turned out it was all a lie.
The ruling party just got rulinger"
said Mark Crispin Miller
So, I am back to enjoying my family, my garden, my city, my friends - for as long as they let us - then contemplate flight.
Still, I will have to figure out a way of continuing the fight to bring back democracy - eventhough I doubt I will live to see it (Ceausescu ruled for 35 years). But someone has to keep it going. So, without illusions, unicorns, raibows and rah, rah, rah - I am still in it.
It was stolen, damn it - and we need to bring back elections. Some day.
NEW DIRTY WORD
"Are too!"..."Am not"!..."Are too!"..."Am not!""
Author daldem
1811 posts
Date Fri Nov-05-04 10:25 AM
My conversation with my republican stepson this morning.
Daldem: "Congratulations, you evangelicals pulled it off"
Stepson: "I'm NOT an evangelical".
Daldem: "Yes you are"
Stepson: "I am not, I'm a Methodist"
Daldem: "Maybe so, but deep down you're an evangelical".
Stepson: "I am not !"
Daldem: "That is okay if you are, I still love you"
Stepson: "I am NOT an evangelical"
Kids, I think we have a new dirty word. It is even better
than Liberal. From this day forwad every republican that
I know will be addressed as an evangelical. After many
"are toos and am nots" I ended the conversation saying that
apparently he needs to find out more about his own party's
base.
"Are too!"..."Am not"!..."Are too!"..."Am not!""
Author daldem
1811 posts
Date Fri Nov-05-04 10:25 AM
My conversation with my republican stepson this morning.
Daldem: "Congratulations, you evangelicals pulled it off"
Stepson: "I'm NOT an evangelical".
Daldem: "Yes you are"
Stepson: "I am not, I'm a Methodist"
Daldem: "Maybe so, but deep down you're an evangelical".
Stepson: "I am not !"
Daldem: "That is okay if you are, I still love you"
Stepson: "I am NOT an evangelical"
Kids, I think we have a new dirty word. It is even better
than Liberal. From this day forwad every republican that
I know will be addressed as an evangelical. After many
"are toos and am nots" I ended the conversation saying that
apparently he needs to find out more about his own party's
base.
DU sez CNN: Edwards likely to be named DNC chair
my entry:
robbedvoter (1000+ posts) Fri Nov-05-04 12:37 PM
Response to Original message
24. Perfect. Dead meat for a dead party.Edited on Fri Nov-05-04 12:41 PM by robbedvoter
The guy who co-sponsored IWR and got praise for ONE SPEECH is the perfect figurehead for the party that ignores voter fraud, can't really oppose a war and tries to snooker people that it's on their side.
Way to celebrate ineffectiveness!
I am all for it - but then again, I left the party when this patsy was put on the ticket.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=203&topic_id=23 594#
my entry:
robbedvoter (1000+ posts) Fri Nov-05-04 12:37 PM
Response to Original message
24. Perfect. Dead meat for a dead party.Edited on Fri Nov-05-04 12:41 PM by robbedvoter
The guy who co-sponsored IWR and got praise for ONE SPEECH is the perfect figurehead for the party that ignores voter fraud, can't really oppose a war and tries to snooker people that it's on their side.
Way to celebrate ineffectiveness!
I am all for it - but then again, I left the party when this patsy was put on the ticket.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=203&topic_id=23 594#
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6407226/site/newsweek /
The "Outlandish" McCain Offer. Kerry's courtship of
Senator John McCain to be his running mate was
longer-standing and more intense than previously
reported. As far back as August 2003, Kerry had taken
McCain to breakfast to sound him out to run on a unity
ticket. McCain batted away the idea as not serious,
but Kerry, after he wrapped up the nomination in
March, went back after McCain a half-dozen more times.
"To show just how sincere he was, he made an
outlandish offer," Newsweek's Thomas reports. "If
McCain said yes he would expand the role of vice
president to include secretary of Defense and the
overall control of foreign policy. McCain exclaimed,
'You're out of your mind. I don't even know if it's
constitutional, and it certainly wouldn't sell.'"
Kerry was thwarted and furious. "Why the f--- didn't
he take it? After what the Bush people did to him...'"
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6407226/site/newsweek /
Edwards Campaigns for Veep. Hours after bowing out of
the presidential nomination race on March 3, the
senator from North Carolina convened a small circle of
his closest advisers at his house on P Street in
Georgetown. He wanted the veep nomination, Edwards
told his aides, he wanted it badly, and from that
moment was going to wage "a full-fledged campaign" to
ensure that he got it.
The "Outlandish" McCain Offer. Kerry's courtship of
Senator John McCain to be his running mate was
longer-standing and more intense than previously
reported. As far back as August 2003, Kerry had taken
McCain to breakfast to sound him out to run on a unity
ticket. McCain batted away the idea as not serious,
but Kerry, after he wrapped up the nomination in
March, went back after McCain a half-dozen more times.
"To show just how sincere he was, he made an
outlandish offer," Newsweek's Thomas reports. "If
McCain said yes he would expand the role of vice
president to include secretary of Defense and the
overall control of foreign policy. McCain exclaimed,
'You're out of your mind. I don't even know if it's
constitutional, and it certainly wouldn't sell.'"
Kerry was thwarted and furious. "Why the f--- didn't
he take it? After what the Bush people did to him...'"
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6407226/site/newsweek /
Edwards Campaigns for Veep. Hours after bowing out of
the presidential nomination race on March 3, the
senator from North Carolina convened a small circle of
his closest advisers at his house on P Street in
Georgetown. He wanted the veep nomination, Edwards
told his aides, he wanted it badly, and from that
moment was going to wage "a full-fledged campaign" to
ensure that he got it.
Mark Crispin Miller
First of all, this election was definitely rigged. I have no doubt
about it. It's a statistical impossibility that Bush got 8 million more
votes than he got last time. In 2000, he got 15 million votes from
right-wing Christians, and there are approximately 19 million of them
in the country. They were eager to get the other 4 million. That was
pretty much Karl Rove's strategy to get Bush elected.
But given Bush's low popularity ratings and the enormous number of new
voters -- who skewed Democratic -- there is no way in the world that
Bush got 8 million more votes this time
I actually got invited to a Kerry fundraiser so I could talk to him
about it.(Diebold) I raised the issue directly with him and with Teresa. Teresa
was really indignant and really concerned, but Kerry just looked down
at me -- he's about 9 feet tall -- and I could tell it just didn't
register. It set off all his conspiracy-theory alarms and he just
wasn't listening.
http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature/2004/11/04/election_reactions/
index1.html
First of all, this election was definitely rigged. I have no doubt
about it. It's a statistical impossibility that Bush got 8 million more
votes than he got last time. In 2000, he got 15 million votes from
right-wing Christians, and there are approximately 19 million of them
in the country. They were eager to get the other 4 million. That was
pretty much Karl Rove's strategy to get Bush elected.
But given Bush's low popularity ratings and the enormous number of new
voters -- who skewed Democratic -- there is no way in the world that
Bush got 8 million more votes this time
I actually got invited to a Kerry fundraiser so I could talk to him
about it.(Diebold) I raised the issue directly with him and with Teresa. Teresa
was really indignant and really concerned, but Kerry just looked down
at me -- he's about 9 feet tall -- and I could tell it just didn't
register. It set off all his conspiracy-theory alarms and he just
wasn't listening.
http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature/2004/11/04/election_reactions/
index1.html
Thursday, November 04, 2004
What battleground demographics did W lock?
Birthmark (1000+ posts) Thu Nov-04-04 01:59 PM
Response to Original message
1. He had the imaginary vote locked up.
That's one of his advantages. Those of us in the reality based community can never hope to pick up that increasingly important demographic.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=203&topic_id=20716#20771
Birthmark (1000+ posts) Thu Nov-04-04 01:59 PM
Response to Original message
1. He had the imaginary vote locked up.
That's one of his advantages. Those of us in the reality based community can never hope to pick up that increasingly important demographic.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=203&topic_id=20716#20771
Original message
Interesting Times.Edited on Thu Nov-04-04 10:35 AM by library_max
It's probably neither ancient nor Chinese, but the "ancient Chinese curse" of "May you live in interesting times" makes its point. It's often no fun to be there when history is made.
It's certainly no fun to look back and realize that the last free and fair Presidential election was in 1996. In 2000, the Republicans were surprised that it was so close, and they had to improvise a steal in Florida. This time, they had all their ducks in a row before the primaries. In retrospect, we never had a chance. Between electronic voting and gerrymandering and purges of the voting rolls and intimidating new and infrequent voters (read: Kerry voters), they had us coming and going. All the careful Democrats who voted absentee or provisional ballot to make sure that their votes got counted got to see the election called and conceded before the envelopes containing their votes were even opened.
And protest isn't going to change anything. Did it change anything in 2000? The votes were eventually counted in Florida in 2000, too, and Gore won. But Bush was already President. Same song, second verse.
The Republicans are now the PRI. They control all three branches at the federal and state levels. They can stay in power as long as they want. They are the government now. We need to give up the illusions that we matter politically, that there is any kind of partnership or cooperative role for Democrats. On the national level at least, we need to repudiate the government and all its works, because the government is the Republicans, pure and simple.
We are a true opposition party now. They are the establishment. We need to stand back and pick at their every misstep and failure and blunder, with mockery and cheap shots. We need everyone to understand that they, and not we, are running things and are responsible for the results. We need to ignore elections, at least on the federal level, for the foreseeable future. We need to prevent them from making us the fall guy for their failures, which is the only role they'll allow us politically. Like the PRI, eventually they'll become so ossified and institutional that they'll be vulnerable, but that point is decades away now.
For years, the Republicans have claimed that government is the enemy, that government can't and won't do anything to help anybody except the rich and powerful. Now they'll make it true. Watch education and every piece of the social safety net get "privatized" out of existence, at least on the federal level. "I'm from the government and I'm here to help you" really will become the bitter joke they've always claimed it is.
If there's anything we can accomplish politically, it'll be on the state level. We need to concentrate on state legislatures and governors' mansions. Because the federal government is going to concentrate on military adventurism and tax cutting, more and more functions will devolve to the states. If there's to be any decency and humane social institutions, they'll have to be on the state level. Imagine how little joy it gives me, a Texan, to write this.
We might as well face the facts. Republicans control all three branches at all levels. They control the news media. They control the process. A year ago, I'd have been the first to say that jeering and finger-pointing and demonizing the government are beneath us, no way to behave if we want the electorate to trust us with power. But they're the only way to behave now that the doors of power are sealed shut against us.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=203&topic_id=19905#20607
Thu Nov-04-04 01:23 PM
Response to Original message
10. Absolutely - well said.
I invite everyone to measure the owning of the process in Florida 2000 vs Florida 2004. One week of 4-8h lines in Miami Dade produced less votes than Gore got - yet not even Palast is bothering to go in the bowels of that one. Ohio will be just as clean next time.
Interesting Times.Edited on Thu Nov-04-04 10:35 AM by library_max
It's probably neither ancient nor Chinese, but the "ancient Chinese curse" of "May you live in interesting times" makes its point. It's often no fun to be there when history is made.
It's certainly no fun to look back and realize that the last free and fair Presidential election was in 1996. In 2000, the Republicans were surprised that it was so close, and they had to improvise a steal in Florida. This time, they had all their ducks in a row before the primaries. In retrospect, we never had a chance. Between electronic voting and gerrymandering and purges of the voting rolls and intimidating new and infrequent voters (read: Kerry voters), they had us coming and going. All the careful Democrats who voted absentee or provisional ballot to make sure that their votes got counted got to see the election called and conceded before the envelopes containing their votes were even opened.
And protest isn't going to change anything. Did it change anything in 2000? The votes were eventually counted in Florida in 2000, too, and Gore won. But Bush was already President. Same song, second verse.
The Republicans are now the PRI. They control all three branches at the federal and state levels. They can stay in power as long as they want. They are the government now. We need to give up the illusions that we matter politically, that there is any kind of partnership or cooperative role for Democrats. On the national level at least, we need to repudiate the government and all its works, because the government is the Republicans, pure and simple.
We are a true opposition party now. They are the establishment. We need to stand back and pick at their every misstep and failure and blunder, with mockery and cheap shots. We need everyone to understand that they, and not we, are running things and are responsible for the results. We need to ignore elections, at least on the federal level, for the foreseeable future. We need to prevent them from making us the fall guy for their failures, which is the only role they'll allow us politically. Like the PRI, eventually they'll become so ossified and institutional that they'll be vulnerable, but that point is decades away now.
For years, the Republicans have claimed that government is the enemy, that government can't and won't do anything to help anybody except the rich and powerful. Now they'll make it true. Watch education and every piece of the social safety net get "privatized" out of existence, at least on the federal level. "I'm from the government and I'm here to help you" really will become the bitter joke they've always claimed it is.
If there's anything we can accomplish politically, it'll be on the state level. We need to concentrate on state legislatures and governors' mansions. Because the federal government is going to concentrate on military adventurism and tax cutting, more and more functions will devolve to the states. If there's to be any decency and humane social institutions, they'll have to be on the state level. Imagine how little joy it gives me, a Texan, to write this.
We might as well face the facts. Republicans control all three branches at all levels. They control the news media. They control the process. A year ago, I'd have been the first to say that jeering and finger-pointing and demonizing the government are beneath us, no way to behave if we want the electorate to trust us with power. But they're the only way to behave now that the doors of power are sealed shut against us.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=203&topic_id=19905#20607
Thu Nov-04-04 01:23 PM
Response to Original message
10. Absolutely - well said.
I invite everyone to measure the owning of the process in Florida 2000 vs Florida 2004. One week of 4-8h lines in Miami Dade produced less votes than Gore got - yet not even Palast is bothering to go in the bowels of that one. Ohio will be just as clean next time.
Original message
Interesting Times.Edited on Thu Nov-04-04 10:35 AM by library_max
It's probably neither ancient nor Chinese, but the "ancient Chinese curse" of "May you live in interesting times" makes its point. It's often no fun to be there when history is made.
It's certainly no fun to look back and realize that the last free and fair Presidential election was in 1996. In 2000, the Republicans were surprised that it was so close, and they had to improvise a steal in Florida. This time, they had all their ducks in a row before the primaries. In retrospect, we never had a chance. Between electronic voting and gerrymandering and purges of the voting rolls and intimidating new and infrequent voters (read: Kerry voters), they had us coming and going. All the careful Democrats who voted absentee or provisional ballot to make sure that their votes got counted got to see the election called and conceded before the envelopes containing their votes were even opened.
And protest isn't going to change anything. Did it change anything in 2000? The votes were eventually counted in Florida in 2000, too, and Gore won. But Bush was already President. Same song, second verse.
The Republicans are now the PRI. They control all three branches at the federal and state levels. They can stay in power as long as they want. They are the government now. We need to give up the illusions that we matter politically, that there is any kind of partnership or cooperative role for Democrats. On the national level at least, we need to repudiate the government and all its works, because the government is the Republicans, pure and simple.
We are a true opposition party now. They are the establishment. We need to stand back and pick at their every misstep and failure and blunder, with mockery and cheap shots. We need everyone to understand that they, and not we, are running things and are responsible for the results. We need to ignore elections, at least on the federal level, for the foreseeable future. We need to prevent them from making us the fall guy for their failures, which is the only role they'll allow us politically. Like the PRI, eventually they'll become so ossified and institutional that they'll be vulnerable, but that point is decades away now.
For years, the Republicans have claimed that government is the enemy, that government can't and won't do anything to help anybody except the rich and powerful. Now they'll make it true. Watch education and every piece of the social safety net get "privatized" out of existence, at least on the federal level. "I'm from the government and I'm here to help you" really will become the bitter joke they've always claimed it is.
If there's anything we can accomplish politically, it'll be on the state level. We need to concentrate on state legislatures and governors' mansions. Because the federal government is going to concentrate on military adventurism and tax cutting, more and more functions will devolve to the states. If there's to be any decency and humane social institutions, they'll have to be on the state level. Imagine how little joy it gives me, a Texan, to write this.
We might as well face the facts. Republicans control all three branches at all levels. They control the news media. They control the process. A year ago, I'd have been the first to say that jeering and finger-pointing and demonizing the government are beneath us, no way to behave if we want the electorate to trust us with power. But they're the only way to behave now that the doors of power are sealed shut against us.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=203&topic_id=19905#20607
Interesting Times.Edited on Thu Nov-04-04 10:35 AM by library_max
It's probably neither ancient nor Chinese, but the "ancient Chinese curse" of "May you live in interesting times" makes its point. It's often no fun to be there when history is made.
It's certainly no fun to look back and realize that the last free and fair Presidential election was in 1996. In 2000, the Republicans were surprised that it was so close, and they had to improvise a steal in Florida. This time, they had all their ducks in a row before the primaries. In retrospect, we never had a chance. Between electronic voting and gerrymandering and purges of the voting rolls and intimidating new and infrequent voters (read: Kerry voters), they had us coming and going. All the careful Democrats who voted absentee or provisional ballot to make sure that their votes got counted got to see the election called and conceded before the envelopes containing their votes were even opened.
And protest isn't going to change anything. Did it change anything in 2000? The votes were eventually counted in Florida in 2000, too, and Gore won. But Bush was already President. Same song, second verse.
The Republicans are now the PRI. They control all three branches at the federal and state levels. They can stay in power as long as they want. They are the government now. We need to give up the illusions that we matter politically, that there is any kind of partnership or cooperative role for Democrats. On the national level at least, we need to repudiate the government and all its works, because the government is the Republicans, pure and simple.
We are a true opposition party now. They are the establishment. We need to stand back and pick at their every misstep and failure and blunder, with mockery and cheap shots. We need everyone to understand that they, and not we, are running things and are responsible for the results. We need to ignore elections, at least on the federal level, for the foreseeable future. We need to prevent them from making us the fall guy for their failures, which is the only role they'll allow us politically. Like the PRI, eventually they'll become so ossified and institutional that they'll be vulnerable, but that point is decades away now.
For years, the Republicans have claimed that government is the enemy, that government can't and won't do anything to help anybody except the rich and powerful. Now they'll make it true. Watch education and every piece of the social safety net get "privatized" out of existence, at least on the federal level. "I'm from the government and I'm here to help you" really will become the bitter joke they've always claimed it is.
If there's anything we can accomplish politically, it'll be on the state level. We need to concentrate on state legislatures and governors' mansions. Because the federal government is going to concentrate on military adventurism and tax cutting, more and more functions will devolve to the states. If there's to be any decency and humane social institutions, they'll have to be on the state level. Imagine how little joy it gives me, a Texan, to write this.
We might as well face the facts. Republicans control all three branches at all levels. They control the news media. They control the process. A year ago, I'd have been the first to say that jeering and finger-pointing and demonizing the government are beneath us, no way to behave if we want the electorate to trust us with power. But they're the only way to behave now that the doors of power are sealed shut against us.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=203&topic_id=19905#20607
Famous last words:
I have no time for those crying in their teacups for stolen elections
John kerry - campaign trail 2003
And the picture
and link
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=11874&mesg_id=17986&page=
I have no time for those crying in their teacups for stolen elections
John kerry - campaign trail 2003
And the picture
and link
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=11874&mesg_id=17986&page=
Wednesday, November 03, 2004
Reaction to Kerry's concession:
Sugarbleus (1000+ posts) Wed Nov-03-04 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #117
128. I asked for my money back too....
I'm a poor disabled woman but I pitched in each month for the first time in my life. I COULDN'T AFFORD that money. I feel like I've been ripped of by a televangelist!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=1301011#
Sugarbleus (1000+ posts) Wed Nov-03-04 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #117
128. I asked for my money back too....
I'm a poor disabled woman but I pitched in each month for the first time in my life. I COULDN'T AFFORD that money. I feel like I've been ripped of by a televangelist!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=1301011#
Tuesday, November 02, 2004
Freepers melt down:
Hey Fellow Freepers -- I thought we were made of sterner stuff. This race is far from over.
Before you decide to post an "AAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRGHHHHH!" or a "Nooooooooooo!!!" or some other girlie-man type howl of despair every time an exit poll doesn't go our way, just imagine how much fun the DUmmies are going to have picking up your comment and posting it over at DU.
So if you don't have anything constructive to say, howsabout you go cry in the bathroom until you get control of yourself, and spare us all your useless whining.
If Bush loses this, it's going to be tough enough around here without your adding to the DUmmies' schadenfreude.
Of course, if Bush wins, I'll see you all over there when I go to add to their misery.
But please, in the meantime, I expect better of you guys. Jeez, I'd hate to be in a foxhole with some of you spineless crybabies
Hey Fellow Freepers -- I thought we were made of sterner stuff. This race is far from over.
Before you decide to post an "AAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRGHHHHH!" or a "Nooooooooooo!!!" or some other girlie-man type howl of despair every time an exit poll doesn't go our way, just imagine how much fun the DUmmies are going to have picking up your comment and posting it over at DU.
So if you don't have anything constructive to say, howsabout you go cry in the bathroom until you get control of yourself, and spare us all your useless whining.
If Bush loses this, it's going to be tough enough around here without your adding to the DUmmies' schadenfreude.
Of course, if Bush wins, I'll see you all over there when I go to add to their misery.
But please, in the meantime, I expect better of you guys. Jeez, I'd hate to be in a foxhole with some of you spineless crybabies
First result:
Just in from Paris:
"Comme a chaque élection présidentielle , le Harris ' Bar a organisé un
vote pour les Américains a Paris .. Kerry l'emporte avec une très forte
majorité ! Et le vote au Harris s'est toujours révèlé exact depuis les
années 1920 !!
Pour ma part je pense que c'est gagné et que vous allez pouvoir fêter
votre victoire . Merci de m'avoir alimenté en informations durant cette
campagne . Jamais une élection présidentielle n'avait suscité un tel
intérêt ici , aussi loin que porte ma mémoire . Je vous embrasse . Michel"
Just in from Paris:
"Comme a chaque élection présidentielle , le Harris ' Bar a organisé un
vote pour les Américains a Paris .. Kerry l'emporte avec une très forte
majorité ! Et le vote au Harris s'est toujours révèlé exact depuis les
années 1920 !!
Pour ma part je pense que c'est gagné et que vous allez pouvoir fêter
votre victoire . Merci de m'avoir alimenté en informations durant cette
campagne . Jamais une élection présidentielle n'avait suscité un tel
intérêt ici , aussi loin que porte ma mémoire . Je vous embrasse . Michel"
meltdown in BFEE - from DU
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x94
Barett808
Sent: Saturday, October 30, 2004 9:51 PM
To: Class of 1976 discussion group.; Class of 1976 discussion group.
Subject: RE: Notes from a friend on what Kerry's team is saying
ok, got a call on my cell phone this am while taking my son to hockey. my friend in the kerry campaign spoke late last night with mark mehlman of the bush team. mehlman was a roomate of my friend when they were both at the harvard law school. they are at opposite ends of the politcal spectrum, but are very good friends. mehlman says the bush team is in "major melt down" because their polling has them losing in ohio and florida, so they are in a mad dash to pull something out in the upper midwest. michigan isn't really in play. he called it a "head fake". wisconsin is slipping away, bush spoke in green bay today to less than 5,000 people (kerry drew 80,000 in madison on thursday). iowa has the numbers potentially but they've focused on it way too late, after the dems had a massive absentee push, so iowa is unlikely. they can't win with minnesota alone and even that state doesn't look good.
mehlman says that there is incredible discord at the top. cheney is absolutley livid with rove on the overall strategy ("we peaked too soon you bastard") and with karen hughes for not adequately preparing bush for the debates ("he looked like a g** d***** mental patient"). cheney is apparently a "real monster". the rnc doesn't know what to do because they can't get any clear direction from the top.
mehlman says that bush's slide in their polls began about three weeks before the debates when kerry when into attack mode with major foreign policy speeches at nyu and at a national guard convention, the day after bush spoke. the slide accelerated big time after the debates, "everyone was as bad as the first with no let-up in free fall" according to mehlman. cheney freaked during the first debate, convinced that bush "'lost the f****** election in front of 65 million people". Now they simply don't have the numbers to win in Florida, have not got their ducks in a row to "deflect" the massive number of early voters and are having real trouble maintaining the base in Florida and elsewhere ("our people are just turning away"). in ohio they've been simply overwhelmed with the new voter registrations and have been unsuccessful in court challenges. bush's number actually go now when he visits ohio after Treasury Secretary Snow's comments in the state that job losses were a "myth". Additionally many repubs are pissed about the financial proligacy of Bush and Cheney and their incompetence in Iraq, so a lot are simply going to "take a pass", read not vote. bush apparently has been totally "out of it" believing Rove and Hughes that everything was fine and that victory was assured, but is finally and slowing catching on that he might lose this thing. yesterday morning when made aware of the bin laden tape in nh, simply said. "It's over."
maybe all this can be chalked up to mehlman having a tough week.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x94
Barett808
Sent: Saturday, October 30, 2004 9:51 PM
To: Class of 1976 discussion group.; Class of 1976 discussion group.
Subject: RE: Notes from a friend on what Kerry's team is saying
ok, got a call on my cell phone this am while taking my son to hockey. my friend in the kerry campaign spoke late last night with mark mehlman of the bush team. mehlman was a roomate of my friend when they were both at the harvard law school. they are at opposite ends of the politcal spectrum, but are very good friends. mehlman says the bush team is in "major melt down" because their polling has them losing in ohio and florida, so they are in a mad dash to pull something out in the upper midwest. michigan isn't really in play. he called it a "head fake". wisconsin is slipping away, bush spoke in green bay today to less than 5,000 people (kerry drew 80,000 in madison on thursday). iowa has the numbers potentially but they've focused on it way too late, after the dems had a massive absentee push, so iowa is unlikely. they can't win with minnesota alone and even that state doesn't look good.
mehlman says that there is incredible discord at the top. cheney is absolutley livid with rove on the overall strategy ("we peaked too soon you bastard") and with karen hughes for not adequately preparing bush for the debates ("he looked like a g** d***** mental patient"). cheney is apparently a "real monster". the rnc doesn't know what to do because they can't get any clear direction from the top.
mehlman says that bush's slide in their polls began about three weeks before the debates when kerry when into attack mode with major foreign policy speeches at nyu and at a national guard convention, the day after bush spoke. the slide accelerated big time after the debates, "everyone was as bad as the first with no let-up in free fall" according to mehlman. cheney freaked during the first debate, convinced that bush "'lost the f****** election in front of 65 million people". Now they simply don't have the numbers to win in Florida, have not got their ducks in a row to "deflect" the massive number of early voters and are having real trouble maintaining the base in Florida and elsewhere ("our people are just turning away"). in ohio they've been simply overwhelmed with the new voter registrations and have been unsuccessful in court challenges. bush's number actually go now when he visits ohio after Treasury Secretary Snow's comments in the state that job losses were a "myth". Additionally many repubs are pissed about the financial proligacy of Bush and Cheney and their incompetence in Iraq, so a lot are simply going to "take a pass", read not vote. bush apparently has been totally "out of it" believing Rove and Hughes that everything was fine and that victory was assured, but is finally and slowing catching on that he might lose this thing. yesterday morning when made aware of the bin laden tape in nh, simply said. "It's over."
maybe all this can be chalked up to mehlman having a tough week.
Voting story from Texas - Red Sox unamerican?
Tue Nov-02-04 08:39 AM
Wellstone Democrat
I got challenged! Here's why!
7:05 I got to my voting place in snow and wind attired in warm clothing and....my Red Sox cap. I thought I'd get a few looks but was actually surprised at how many and how *angry*---though they'd look over my head, see the husband in his RS cap and turn away
I got up to the table, the elderly woman looked at me, took my registration card and looked around sort of frantically. Up comes an officious little man who asked to see my card and I asked who he was. "We need to see if you are registered" Oh, I said, why? I have a *new* registration card and here's my license. Who are you? "A volunteer" he says (I'm still holding the license). For the city, county or state? I asked. "Just a volunteer" he answered. Can I have your name since you are getting mine I asked? No he said. I then told the worker that I wanted either the supervisor of that poll or the police. Because a strange man was asking to see identification and refused to say who he was: he could steal my identity! ( )
That panicked them (and got me a poke in the back from my entertained husband) and they muttered and mumbled and then the elderly woman said: "well that hat" which got her a dirty look from the "volunteer." OH? Said I. A problem with the World Champion Red Sox? No, no, no, they both said. "Never mind, have a nice day." OK, said I, I'm going to call the board of elections and ask why they didn't tell me I could not wear a Red Sox hat and be an American. The "volunteer's" parting shot? "Don't make trouble."
Whoo boy, wrong thing to say to a woman in Texas. Two men in the next line said a version of of "apologize to the lady" instantly. The little turd said "I have to make sure there is no fraud." He then looks at my husband and his RS cap and says simply: "give your registration card to the clerk" My husband, my dear sweet quiet husband looked *down* at the little man and said: "Any problems with *my* hat?" No, no, no said the "volunteer" and the people around actually *hooted* as he walked away. As I squeezed between the lines to get to the booths a very old man in the next line grabbed my arm and said: "Honey, you vote for who you want. Its America and I'll probably cancel you out anyway!" Then, he looked at the "B" on the hat, looked at me and said (smiling): "Or maybe not..."
Made MY day. And, so I'm sitting at Dem HQ with my laptop, waiting to report this "incident" and to go out to the retirement apts near me to drive people to the polls in this driving sleet we have today. We called to see if people changed their minds for a.m. voting because of the weather. The manager said: "no, we have more down here than signed up already." As soon as the vans arrive, I'm off to do my bit---now that I have my avatar: I VOTED.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=1269395&mesg_id=1269395
Tue Nov-02-04 08:39 AM
Wellstone Democrat
I got challenged! Here's why!
7:05 I got to my voting place in snow and wind attired in warm clothing and....my Red Sox cap. I thought I'd get a few looks but was actually surprised at how many and how *angry*---though they'd look over my head, see the husband in his RS cap and turn away
I got up to the table, the elderly woman looked at me, took my registration card and looked around sort of frantically. Up comes an officious little man who asked to see my card and I asked who he was. "We need to see if you are registered" Oh, I said, why? I have a *new* registration card and here's my license. Who are you? "A volunteer" he says (I'm still holding the license). For the city, county or state? I asked. "Just a volunteer" he answered. Can I have your name since you are getting mine I asked? No he said. I then told the worker that I wanted either the supervisor of that poll or the police. Because a strange man was asking to see identification and refused to say who he was: he could steal my identity! ( )
That panicked them (and got me a poke in the back from my entertained husband) and they muttered and mumbled and then the elderly woman said: "well that hat" which got her a dirty look from the "volunteer." OH? Said I. A problem with the World Champion Red Sox? No, no, no, they both said. "Never mind, have a nice day." OK, said I, I'm going to call the board of elections and ask why they didn't tell me I could not wear a Red Sox hat and be an American. The "volunteer's" parting shot? "Don't make trouble."
Whoo boy, wrong thing to say to a woman in Texas. Two men in the next line said a version of of "apologize to the lady" instantly. The little turd said "I have to make sure there is no fraud." He then looks at my husband and his RS cap and says simply: "give your registration card to the clerk" My husband, my dear sweet quiet husband looked *down* at the little man and said: "Any problems with *my* hat?" No, no, no said the "volunteer" and the people around actually *hooted* as he walked away. As I squeezed between the lines to get to the booths a very old man in the next line grabbed my arm and said: "Honey, you vote for who you want. Its America and I'll probably cancel you out anyway!" Then, he looked at the "B" on the hat, looked at me and said (smiling): "Or maybe not..."
Made MY day. And, so I'm sitting at Dem HQ with my laptop, waiting to report this "incident" and to go out to the retirement apts near me to drive people to the polls in this driving sleet we have today. We called to see if people changed their minds for a.m. voting because of the weather. The manager said: "no, we have more down here than signed up already." As soon as the vans arrive, I'm off to do my bit---now that I have my avatar: I VOTED.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=1269395&mesg_id=1269395
Subscribe to:
Posts (Atom)