Poppy shoving Clinton?
http://dailykos.com/story/2004/5/29/162231/064
Bush I pushes Clinton
by kos
Sat May 29th, 2004 at 16:22:31 EDT
Hmmm, I wasn't watching the WWII Memorial ceremony, but apparently there was a bit of jostling around. Reef the Dog reports in the Open Thread comments:
It was on CNN. Bush 41, 43, and Clinton were talking at the end of the ceremony. Clinton wagged his finger in Bush 43's face. Dunno what they were talking about but it seemed at least superficially cordial. Then Poppy suddenly shoved Clinton in the chest with both hands, enough to throw Clinton off balance. I don't know why, but it was completely inappropriate and almost seemed to me like 41 was trying to prove his manhood or something. I'm not even sure what happened after that, the camera quickly went somewhere else.
I wonder what happened...
Misc ::
Bush I pushes Clinton
by kos
Sat May 29th, 2004 at 16:22:31 EDT
Hmmm, I wasn't watching the WWII Memorial ceremony, but apparently there was a bit of jostling around. Reef the Dog reports in the Open Thread comments:
It was on CNN. Bush 41, 43, and Clinton were talking at the end of the ceremony. Clinton wagged his finger in Bush 43's face. Dunno what they were talking about but it seemed at least superficially cordial. Then Poppy suddenly shoved Clinton in the chest with both hands, enough to throw Clinton off balance. I don't know why, but it was completely inappropriate and almost seemed to me like 41 was trying to prove his manhood or something. I'm not even sure what happened after that, the camera quickly went somewhere else.
I wonder what happened...
Misc ::
Bush I pushes Clinton
by kos
Sat May 29th, 2004 at 16:22:31 EDT
Hmmm, I wasn't watching the WWII Memorial ceremony, but apparently there was a bit of jostling around. Reef the Dog reports in the Open Thread comments:
It was on CNN. Bush 41, 43, and Clinton were talking at the end of the ceremony. Clinton wagged his finger in Bush 43's face. Dunno what they were talking about but it seemed at least superficially cordial. Then Poppy suddenly shoved Clinton in the chest with both hands, enough to throw Clinton off balance. I don't know why, but it was completely inappropriate and almost seemed to me like 41 was trying to prove his manhood or something. I'm not even sure what happened after that, the camera quickly went somewhere else.
I wonder what happened...
A pic here
Monday, May 31, 2004
Adventures in Chuckyland:
[new] (#247) (No rating)
by armymom (armymom at forclark dot com) on 05/31/2004 08:56:04 AM EST
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Lurking over in Chucky's world this morning...their whole way of thinking is different than ours:
look at some of the things they are saying:
"with gas over 2 bucks a gallon. Milk near 4$ a gallon. iraq , saudi arabia in shambles why is it even close? people don't like kerry. They may like some of his policies but he is not cuddly or warm. big story today about how perfect kerry voter demographically don't like him. Edwards or Bust ( and i mean bust for the dems)."
"If you post on any of the online news forum and speak highly of Senator Edwards or Senator McCain in a topic of on conversation, the Kerry supporters lash out as do the Bush supporters... it is indeed interesting that both Bush and Kerry supporters on news forums tend to attack anyone saying they wish another Democratic candidate with a message of hope and optimism was the nominee, Kerry people go ballistic and Bush people go on the attack too especially when some moderates defend MCCain..interesting, moderates seem no longer welcome by either party."
"It's not a good sign for Kerry if he has fallen behind Bush in Ohio. Methinks he needs John Edwards on that ticket soon!"
"Kerry is related to Bush, the British Royal Family, John Winthrop, King James I (King James version of the Bible), and plenty of other patriarchs. If that is not "monarchy" I don't know what is. Could we for once get someone like John Edwards in the White House?"
[new] (#247) (No rating)
by armymom (armymom at forclark dot com) on 05/31/2004 08:56:04 AM EST
Rate this: - 1 2 3 4 5 + | Reply
Lurking over in Chucky's world this morning...their whole way of thinking is different than ours:
look at some of the things they are saying:
"with gas over 2 bucks a gallon. Milk near 4$ a gallon. iraq , saudi arabia in shambles why is it even close? people don't like kerry. They may like some of his policies but he is not cuddly or warm. big story today about how perfect kerry voter demographically don't like him. Edwards or Bust ( and i mean bust for the dems)."
"If you post on any of the online news forum and speak highly of Senator Edwards or Senator McCain in a topic of on conversation, the Kerry supporters lash out as do the Bush supporters... it is indeed interesting that both Bush and Kerry supporters on news forums tend to attack anyone saying they wish another Democratic candidate with a message of hope and optimism was the nominee, Kerry people go ballistic and Bush people go on the attack too especially when some moderates defend MCCain..interesting, moderates seem no longer welcome by either party."
"It's not a good sign for Kerry if he has fallen behind Bush in Ohio. Methinks he needs John Edwards on that ticket soon!"
"Kerry is related to Bush, the British Royal Family, John Winthrop, King James I (King James version of the Bible), and plenty of other patriarchs. If that is not "monarchy" I don't know what is. Could we for once get someone like John Edwards in the White House?"
Tuesday, May 25, 2004
Air America
LowerManhattanite (67 posts) Tue May-25-04 10:56 PM
Response to Reply #93
106. I work for WBAI-FM (Pacifica) in NY...Edited on Tue May-25-04 11:11 PM by LowerManhattanite
...and previously for Inner City Broadcasting ( ICBC-the license holder for the WLIB 1190 AM/WBLS 107.5 FM frequencies), so I feel I can speak on this with a certain level of authority...
Air America is fine. The payroll issue is a long-standing one with ICBC. Air America is run out of the old 33rd ICBC/ WLIB floor studios which were heavily renovated (by broadcast engineer friends of mine). They went from analog with a few CD players to a full digital format using NO tape. This quick switch (done in a span of three weeks--amazingly fast!) took place with almost NO shakedown/test-run of the equipment. Thus, the occasionally choppy air sound. They lost a major sponsor in GM when a vendetta-addled former editor-now columnist for the Daily News named Michael Goodwin mounted an immediate campaign against the network. (He won a Pulitzer while editor for his vendetta against the one-time Inner City Broadcasting-owned Apollo Theater and it's management---yes...he has a bug up his ass about the African-American Sutton family that owns AAr's flagship frequency)
He personally called GM's ad sellers and complained about Randi's comparison of the Bush family to the Corleones and her direct comparison of W to the dim Fredo. GM blinked and yanked the account, biting into the direct revenue stream--thus the payroll hiccup.
They have secured other investors which have been named---and some prominent ones who have NOT been named. Money isn't the problem. Ad sales are. And those problems have abated considerably. Various pharmaceutical companies have recently signed on, nearly ALL of the free Ad Council ads are gone and believe it or not two of the newest advertisers to sign on are Shell Petroleum and...wait for it...Sam's Club AKA Wal-Mart. Ford stepped into the breach for GM based on the web stream numbers. Marketers can tell a lot about a target market that has computers or daily access to them where they can be listened to (white-collar jobs translates into people with money). As to the ratings numbers, they mean what they say. In the most desired demographic, Limbaugh got beat by a two-month old baby upstart in the biggest media market. That covers New York, New Jersey and Connecticut---a listener base of nearly 12 million people and in the city of the lionized-for-no-good-reason repug Giuliani, the present mayorlty of the trollish repug Bloomberg and the smirking three-term GOP governor Pataki. How does this affect the competition?
Here's how. AAR's direct competition namely the NPR affilliates WNYC/WNYE and my present employer WBAI-FM are scared sh*tless. We have been from the moment AAR announced it's impending existence. These are the progressive stations in the NY area and from the moment of the announcement we all knew that fund-raising was gonna take a massive blow to the head. If those listeners are listening to AAR (and unfortunately, they are), that means they're not listening when we have fund drives---which translates into diminished revenue. The vast bulk of public radio listeners don't pay in anyway, so any slip in the audience means a loss of potential wallets. And the audience has slipped. (In addition to the loss of a lot of behind the scenes local talent AAR has hired away)
Sorry to ramble, but as something of an insider, I felt I could tell you a bit more than you're hearing via the rumor mill and freeper-provacateurs. The station isn't perfect, but it's doing better and is on a serious upswing. Watch soon for the weekend gaps to be filled with new programming in lieu of the repeats. The recent ratings are excellent--proof of the pudding? The sad faces here at WBAI and at WNYC and in the invite of Franken to speak at the influential "Talkers" conference.
Thanks for reading,
LM
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=1664394&mesg_id=1667009&page=
...and trust me..Phil Boyce (the WABC Programming Director) is boiling mad about the ratings book numbers. The period Franken cited is the midday block (as opposed to morning drive and evening drive which sandwiches it). He's already got his little anti-union attack poodle and weekend host Steve Malzberg (the whiny little f*ck who was on Scarborough-"how'd-that-dead-intern-get-in-my-office" Country last week) foaming at the mouth about it. The progressives in NY radio all get along in spite of the competition. JoAnne Allen who does the midday news on AAR is still on good terms with her buds at WNYC and all the Pacifica "Democracy Now" folks have a standing invite on Majority Report.
That said, there are some glum faces at NYC and BAI with the hit they've taken listener-wise. (Although with NYC's rightward drift, their pain I can live with.)
LowerManhattanite (67 posts) Tue May-25-04 10:56 PM
Response to Reply #93
106. I work for WBAI-FM (Pacifica) in NY...Edited on Tue May-25-04 11:11 PM by LowerManhattanite
...and previously for Inner City Broadcasting ( ICBC-the license holder for the WLIB 1190 AM/WBLS 107.5 FM frequencies), so I feel I can speak on this with a certain level of authority...
Air America is fine. The payroll issue is a long-standing one with ICBC. Air America is run out of the old 33rd ICBC/ WLIB floor studios which were heavily renovated (by broadcast engineer friends of mine). They went from analog with a few CD players to a full digital format using NO tape. This quick switch (done in a span of three weeks--amazingly fast!) took place with almost NO shakedown/test-run of the equipment. Thus, the occasionally choppy air sound. They lost a major sponsor in GM when a vendetta-addled former editor-now columnist for the Daily News named Michael Goodwin mounted an immediate campaign against the network. (He won a Pulitzer while editor for his vendetta against the one-time Inner City Broadcasting-owned Apollo Theater and it's management---yes...he has a bug up his ass about the African-American Sutton family that owns AAr's flagship frequency)
He personally called GM's ad sellers and complained about Randi's comparison of the Bush family to the Corleones and her direct comparison of W to the dim Fredo. GM blinked and yanked the account, biting into the direct revenue stream--thus the payroll hiccup.
They have secured other investors which have been named---and some prominent ones who have NOT been named. Money isn't the problem. Ad sales are. And those problems have abated considerably. Various pharmaceutical companies have recently signed on, nearly ALL of the free Ad Council ads are gone and believe it or not two of the newest advertisers to sign on are Shell Petroleum and...wait for it...Sam's Club AKA Wal-Mart. Ford stepped into the breach for GM based on the web stream numbers. Marketers can tell a lot about a target market that has computers or daily access to them where they can be listened to (white-collar jobs translates into people with money). As to the ratings numbers, they mean what they say. In the most desired demographic, Limbaugh got beat by a two-month old baby upstart in the biggest media market. That covers New York, New Jersey and Connecticut---a listener base of nearly 12 million people and in the city of the lionized-for-no-good-reason repug Giuliani, the present mayorlty of the trollish repug Bloomberg and the smirking three-term GOP governor Pataki. How does this affect the competition?
Here's how. AAR's direct competition namely the NPR affilliates WNYC/WNYE and my present employer WBAI-FM are scared sh*tless. We have been from the moment AAR announced it's impending existence. These are the progressive stations in the NY area and from the moment of the announcement we all knew that fund-raising was gonna take a massive blow to the head. If those listeners are listening to AAR (and unfortunately, they are), that means they're not listening when we have fund drives---which translates into diminished revenue. The vast bulk of public radio listeners don't pay in anyway, so any slip in the audience means a loss of potential wallets. And the audience has slipped. (In addition to the loss of a lot of behind the scenes local talent AAR has hired away)
Sorry to ramble, but as something of an insider, I felt I could tell you a bit more than you're hearing via the rumor mill and freeper-provacateurs. The station isn't perfect, but it's doing better and is on a serious upswing. Watch soon for the weekend gaps to be filled with new programming in lieu of the repeats. The recent ratings are excellent--proof of the pudding? The sad faces here at WBAI and at WNYC and in the invite of Franken to speak at the influential "Talkers" conference.
Thanks for reading,
LM
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=1664394&mesg_id=1667009&page=
...and trust me..Phil Boyce (the WABC Programming Director) is boiling mad about the ratings book numbers. The period Franken cited is the midday block (as opposed to morning drive and evening drive which sandwiches it). He's already got his little anti-union attack poodle and weekend host Steve Malzberg (the whiny little f*ck who was on Scarborough-"how'd-that-dead-intern-get-in-my-office" Country last week) foaming at the mouth about it. The progressives in NY radio all get along in spite of the competition. JoAnne Allen who does the midday news on AAR is still on good terms with her buds at WNYC and all the Pacifica "Democracy Now" folks have a standing invite on Majority Report.
That said, there are some glum faces at NYC and BAI with the hit they've taken listener-wise. (Although with NYC's rightward drift, their pain I can live with.)
(#206) (Rated 5.00/3)
by fmsjp on 05/25/2004 02:53:07 PM EST
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Duped isn't the right word---stupid is closer.
Clark said flatout Bush wanted a "campaign" to to "drain the swamp". It starts in Iraq and goes through Iran, Sudan, Syria, Libya, Lebanon and Somalia. Seven states over five years.
So, that Iran was giving them info to help "sell" this war to us, it just fits the mo here. That they were so stupid to destroy an enemy of our enemy (Islamic fundamentalists) just goes to prove the absolute arrogance of this entire administration. No matter what happens now, when the US pulls out of Iraq there will be a vaccum of power, and Iran knows it will fill it.
Iran has got to be nervous though. When they look to the east or the west they see american soldiers on their border.
Everything is destabilized now. And I do not believe there is any good solution.
Joe
by fmsjp on 05/25/2004 02:53:07 PM EST
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Duped isn't the right word---stupid is closer.
Clark said flatout Bush wanted a "campaign" to to "drain the swamp". It starts in Iraq and goes through Iran, Sudan, Syria, Libya, Lebanon and Somalia. Seven states over five years.
So, that Iran was giving them info to help "sell" this war to us, it just fits the mo here. That they were so stupid to destroy an enemy of our enemy (Islamic fundamentalists) just goes to prove the absolute arrogance of this entire administration. No matter what happens now, when the US pulls out of Iraq there will be a vaccum of power, and Iran knows it will fill it.
Iran has got to be nervous though. When they look to the east or the west they see american soldiers on their border.
Everything is destabilized now. And I do not believe there is any good solution.
Joe
Monday, May 24, 2004
Banality of evil - man clipping nails next to torture vicim on box
with fake electrodes - that iconic image just became more chilling by being totally revealed....In another - the naked men pile, some people are walking by WITHOUT PAYING ATTENTION. These two detals sent chills down my spine - atrocities grew boring to these people
"Remember, it's not important that we did torture these people. What's important is that we are not the kind of people who would torture these people."
The Daily Show
with fake electrodes - that iconic image just became more chilling by being totally revealed....In another - the naked men pile, some people are walking by WITHOUT PAYING ATTENTION. These two detals sent chills down my spine - atrocities grew boring to these people
"Remember, it's not important that we did torture these people. What's important is that we are not the kind of people who would torture these people."
The Daily Show
Saturday, May 22, 2004
Quotes of the Day
Graner replied: "The Christian in me says it's wrong, but the corrections officer in me says, 'I love to make a grown man piss himself.' "
for perspective this one too:
"Remember, it's not important that we did torture these people. What's important is that we are not the kind of people who would torture these people."
The Daily Show
and a pic
here
Graner replied: "The Christian in me says it's wrong, but the corrections officer in me says, 'I love to make a grown man piss himself.' "
for perspective this one too:
"Remember, it's not important that we did torture these people. What's important is that we are not the kind of people who would torture these people."
The Daily Show
and a pic
here
Response to the DU Mccain for VP:
robbedvoter (1000+ posts) Sat May-22-04 09:43 AM
Response to Original message
11. I want an anti-war liberal for VP (and will get him too)
"I am a liberal. We live in a liberal democracy... This country was founded on the principals of
the Enlightenment.
-- Wes Clark
As for the McCain brainwashing....it scares me what the media can build. Does anyone remember when 2 dem reps (McDermott and ? )went to Iraq - before the war and reported that this was a poor battered country - no threat to us?
"centrist" McCain called them TRAITORS (they spoke from Bagdad).
And if "centrist" means to be one of the 2 senators (with Nickles) to refuse NYC 911 recovery funds, well then i am probably a very extremist left.
repeat after me: SOMEONE WHO OCCASIONALLY TELLS THE TRUTH IN THE GOP IS NOT A GOD! (but it is an anomalie - which speaks more about the GOp than for the OCCASIONAL truth teller)
As W gets more and more extreme, you'll hear wingnuts scratching their heads. Alterman chronicles some of it:
Hawks Eating Crow
http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20040607&s=alterman
he Bush Administration has not made it easy on its supporters. David Brooks now admits that he was gripped with a "childish fantasy" about Iraq. Tucker Carlson is "ashamed" and "enraged" at himself. Tom Friedman, admitting to being "a little slow," is finally off the reservation. Die-hard Republican publicist William Kristol admits of Bush, "He did drive us into a ditch." The neocon fantasist and sometime Republican speechwriter Mark Helprin complains on the Wall Street Journal editorial page--the movement's Pravda-...
It is a good thing. But it does it mean that I will want David Brooks for Press secretary, Ticker carlson for speechwriter or Tom friedman for foreign policy advisor.
Snap out of it!
robbedvoter (1000+ posts) Sat May-22-04 09:43 AM
Response to Original message
11. I want an anti-war liberal for VP (and will get him too)
"I am a liberal. We live in a liberal democracy... This country was founded on the principals of
the Enlightenment.
-- Wes Clark
As for the McCain brainwashing....it scares me what the media can build. Does anyone remember when 2 dem reps (McDermott and ? )went to Iraq - before the war and reported that this was a poor battered country - no threat to us?
"centrist" McCain called them TRAITORS (they spoke from Bagdad).
And if "centrist" means to be one of the 2 senators (with Nickles) to refuse NYC 911 recovery funds, well then i am probably a very extremist left.
repeat after me: SOMEONE WHO OCCASIONALLY TELLS THE TRUTH IN THE GOP IS NOT A GOD! (but it is an anomalie - which speaks more about the GOp than for the OCCASIONAL truth teller)
As W gets more and more extreme, you'll hear wingnuts scratching their heads. Alterman chronicles some of it:
Hawks Eating Crow
http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20040607&s=alterman
he Bush Administration has not made it easy on its supporters. David Brooks now admits that he was gripped with a "childish fantasy" about Iraq. Tucker Carlson is "ashamed" and "enraged" at himself. Tom Friedman, admitting to being "a little slow," is finally off the reservation. Die-hard Republican publicist William Kristol admits of Bush, "He did drive us into a ditch." The neocon fantasist and sometime Republican speechwriter Mark Helprin complains on the Wall Street Journal editorial page--the movement's Pravda-...
It is a good thing. But it does it mean that I will want David Brooks for Press secretary, Ticker carlson for speechwriter or Tom friedman for foreign policy advisor.
Snap out of it!
new angle on Chalabi
Neocon Lets Cat Out of Bag
Robert Dreyfuss
May 19, 2004
http://www.tompaine.com/articles/neocon_lets_cat_out_of_bag.php
Michael Rubin--a young staffer at the American Enterprise Institute who's just left the Pentagon, where he played a small role as a neocon cog in the Office of Special Plans war machine--let a herd of cats out of the bag about his favorite Iraqi phony, Ahmad Chalabi of the Iraqi National Congress.
snip
Well, says Rubin, who served as one the Pentagon's liaisons to Chalabi, that's exactly what they want you to think:
"Much of the information he collected was to roll up the insurgency and Ba'athist cells. It caught people red-handed," said Michael Rubin, a former Pentagon adviser who is now at a conservative think-tank, the American Enterprise Institute.
"By telegraphing that he is not the favorite son of America, the administration will bolster him, showing he is his own man."
I put this in abeyance as the events seemed too out of control to be true. But now I see that the "disgraced' Chalabi is doing the talk show circuit - MTP, ABC - so I am starting considering it again
Neocon Lets Cat Out of Bag
Robert Dreyfuss
May 19, 2004
http://www.tompaine.com/articles/neocon_lets_cat_out_of_bag.php
Michael Rubin--a young staffer at the American Enterprise Institute who's just left the Pentagon, where he played a small role as a neocon cog in the Office of Special Plans war machine--let a herd of cats out of the bag about his favorite Iraqi phony, Ahmad Chalabi of the Iraqi National Congress.
snip
Well, says Rubin, who served as one the Pentagon's liaisons to Chalabi, that's exactly what they want you to think:
"Much of the information he collected was to roll up the insurgency and Ba'athist cells. It caught people red-handed," said Michael Rubin, a former Pentagon adviser who is now at a conservative think-tank, the American Enterprise Institute.
"By telegraphing that he is not the favorite son of America, the administration will bolster him, showing he is his own man."
I put this in abeyance as the events seemed too out of control to be true. But now I see that the "disgraced' Chalabi is doing the talk show circuit - MTP, ABC - so I am starting considering it again
Friday, May 21, 2004
(#179) (Rated 5.00/1)
by Donna Z on 05/21/2004 09:18:23 PM EST
Rate this: - 1 2 3 4 5 + | Parent | Reply
Kay_I left an ODL message for you up thread.
Here's another snip:
An interview with Barney
Bob, from Williamsburg, Brooklyn writes: What was it like to be dropped on your head? I imagine it wasn't fun. Do you harbor any resentments against the President, and if so, does that worry the Secret Service?
Barney Bush: Ouch! It hurted something awful getting dropped on my little noggin like that! We had just landed in daddy's big plane, and mommy had carried me down to the ground where all the girls were waiting to meet us. But mommy hadn't had a Benson & Hedges Menthol 100 in almost two hours, so she wanted to get into my daddy's big car with the dark windows right away. That is why she threw me at my daddy like a shot put, and he couldn't help but lose his grip on me after downing all those Bucklers. So no, I did not get mad at my daddy for almost killing me, because it was not really his fault. Besides, if I had growled and snapped at him, then all those nice girls would not have kneeled down to pet me and let me sniff their hoo-hoos.
by Donna Z on 05/21/2004 09:18:23 PM EST
Rate this: - 1 2 3 4 5 + | Parent | Reply
Kay_I left an ODL message for you up thread.
Here's another snip:
An interview with Barney
Bob, from Williamsburg, Brooklyn writes: What was it like to be dropped on your head? I imagine it wasn't fun. Do you harbor any resentments against the President, and if so, does that worry the Secret Service?
Barney Bush: Ouch! It hurted something awful getting dropped on my little noggin like that! We had just landed in daddy's big plane, and mommy had carried me down to the ground where all the girls were waiting to meet us. But mommy hadn't had a Benson & Hedges Menthol 100 in almost two hours, so she wanted to get into my daddy's big car with the dark windows right away. That is why she threw me at my daddy like a shot put, and he couldn't help but lose his grip on me after downing all those Bucklers. So no, I did not get mad at my daddy for almost killing me, because it was not really his fault. Besides, if I had growled and snapped at him, then all those nice girls would not have kneeled down to pet me and let me sniff their hoo-hoos.
DU - gratuituous
Note the timing of these "memos," because it tells you something very important: Late 2001, early 2002. At that time, it was the intention and soon to become the policy of the Bush administration to use extra-legal methods, up to and including torture, against anyone captured or detained by the United States.
First the question gets batted around: Should we abjure the use of torture in every circumstance? Well, what about {insert urgent scenario here}. Or what if it was your daughter buried alive, and the scumbag on the other side of the table knew where she was?
The scenarios get more and more desperate, more and more Hollywood style. Torture passes from the unthinkable to the thinkable, which is half the battle. Then, it passes from the thinkable to the doable, the stage at which the reprehensible Professor Yoo and Mr. Delahunty write their little memos.
Over the months, the memos are circulated and discussed. Torture as a method goes from thinkable to doable, and finally to where these bastards wanted it all along: The imperative. We must torture the people we capture, or else we fail our sacred mission to maintain security.
And that torture (or "abuse") is not merely imperative, but is morally imperative: We can't take the chance that someone in custody might have valuable information that could save soldiers' lives. How could we face the American people if they knew that we had hold of the mastermind behind some unspeakable atrocity, and hadn't done everything we could to find out what he was planning, and tried to stop it? Of course {lip service duly paid to civil rights and basic humanity} we don't want to torture or abuse anyone, but the people of Iraq, by being brutalized by the Saddam regime for so long, can't be trusted to respect humanity the way we do. They must suffer so that our people are not in danger.
These criminals that have seized control of our country must be stopped.
Note the timing of these "memos," because it tells you something very important: Late 2001, early 2002. At that time, it was the intention and soon to become the policy of the Bush administration to use extra-legal methods, up to and including torture, against anyone captured or detained by the United States.
First the question gets batted around: Should we abjure the use of torture in every circumstance? Well, what about {insert urgent scenario here}. Or what if it was your daughter buried alive, and the scumbag on the other side of the table knew where she was?
The scenarios get more and more desperate, more and more Hollywood style. Torture passes from the unthinkable to the thinkable, which is half the battle. Then, it passes from the thinkable to the doable, the stage at which the reprehensible Professor Yoo and Mr. Delahunty write their little memos.
Over the months, the memos are circulated and discussed. Torture as a method goes from thinkable to doable, and finally to where these bastards wanted it all along: The imperative. We must torture the people we capture, or else we fail our sacred mission to maintain security.
And that torture (or "abuse") is not merely imperative, but is morally imperative: We can't take the chance that someone in custody might have valuable information that could save soldiers' lives. How could we face the American people if they knew that we had hold of the mastermind behind some unspeakable atrocity, and hadn't done everything we could to find out what he was planning, and tried to stop it? Of course {lip service duly paid to civil rights and basic humanity} we don't want to torture or abuse anyone, but the people of Iraq, by being brutalized by the Saddam regime for so long, can't be trusted to respect humanity the way we do. They must suffer so that our people are not in danger.
These criminals that have seized control of our country must be stopped.
(#217) (No rating)
by El in New York (El-in-New-York at forclark dot com) on 05/21/2004 06:53:58 AM EST
Rate this: - 1 2 3 4 5 + | Reply
Good morning, Clarkies.. I'm here for a short time before going to work today. I'm still thinking of some questions that I will ask Clark if I get a chance to talk with him during the wespac reception on Monday. If anyone who can't be there has a good question regarding his take on the current situation in Iraq, the campaign etc. let me know and I will try to ask it on your behalf.
Last night before going to sleep I peeked into the Edwards blog, it is incredible how with 225 comments in their 'open discussion' taking place over days how many posts were full of vitriol about Wes. They clearly see Wes Clark as their main opponent to getting JRE on the ticket as VP. They throw out all kinds of invectives about online Clarkistas who they regard as their enemy, insult Clark, talk about voting Clark down on the MSNBC veepstakes. They also insult Kerry repeatedly, and often say that the only way he could win is with Edwards by his side. One of them wondered if NBC was in cahoots with Republicans for Wes to be leading him this week. They are pretty obsessed. They talk aobut joining Kerry's blog to defend Edwards aginst Clark. Rarely seen were current or developing news-domestic or international with links posted. There's one Clark supporter registered there defending Clark and they constantly lash out with anger to any comments he makes. It's probrably better just not getting involved with them, but worth checking their blog occasionally to gain a perspective. I believe that they read this blog too and extract phrases from it, so maybe it would be a good idea to just ignore Edwards as much as possible for the following month, since we already said our pieces about him - to send a message that there's much more important things WE care about than a petty rivalry with the JE camp.
by El in New York (El-in-New-York at forclark dot com) on 05/21/2004 06:53:58 AM EST
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Good morning, Clarkies.. I'm here for a short time before going to work today. I'm still thinking of some questions that I will ask Clark if I get a chance to talk with him during the wespac reception on Monday. If anyone who can't be there has a good question regarding his take on the current situation in Iraq, the campaign etc. let me know and I will try to ask it on your behalf.
Last night before going to sleep I peeked into the Edwards blog, it is incredible how with 225 comments in their 'open discussion' taking place over days how many posts were full of vitriol about Wes. They clearly see Wes Clark as their main opponent to getting JRE on the ticket as VP. They throw out all kinds of invectives about online Clarkistas who they regard as their enemy, insult Clark, talk about voting Clark down on the MSNBC veepstakes. They also insult Kerry repeatedly, and often say that the only way he could win is with Edwards by his side. One of them wondered if NBC was in cahoots with Republicans for Wes to be leading him this week. They are pretty obsessed. They talk aobut joining Kerry's blog to defend Edwards aginst Clark. Rarely seen were current or developing news-domestic or international with links posted. There's one Clark supporter registered there defending Clark and they constantly lash out with anger to any comments he makes. It's probrably better just not getting involved with them, but worth checking their blog occasionally to gain a perspective. I believe that they read this blog too and extract phrases from it, so maybe it would be a good idea to just ignore Edwards as much as possible for the following month, since we already said our pieces about him - to send a message that there's much more important things WE care about than a petty rivalry with the JE camp.
[new] (#231) (No rating)
by C4Clark on 05/21/2004 08:38:55 AM EST
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I hope no one minds if I do this. TC asked me to post something she wrote last night while not being able to sleep. It is, I think, what you might call a "rant", and I'm not sure what the difference between this and actually blogging is (which she is not supposed to do, doctor's orders), but I see it as my fault for sitting at the computer in her room, and reading her what you are all writing here (edited with what I would like to think is my own good judgment.) So, here is what she wrote:
"NO COMPARISONS!
As you all know there are many things that just shock and appall me. Yeah, the Bushies are horrid. The war and the atrocities are horrendous. The economy is outrageous. Yadda, yadda, yadda. The beat just goes on with this band of thieves and gets worse every day.
Okay, that having been said, I want to tell you all that there is a new layer to my irritation lately, and it is one of COMPARISONS. They are driving me crazy -- a short drive, to be sure, but they get me there as efficiently as any of the abominations that are ticking away the days until this election.
[1] "JFK" v. "jfk". John Kerry is our nominee. The fact that he is not Wes has NOTHING TO DO with what I am about too say. As you all know I have met both JFK and jfk, and believe me whan I tell you that as great a guy as Kerry can be, he is NO GODDAM "JFK". Even with the nod to that being the lower case used for his initials, I find the COMPARISON offensive. And, to put a finer point on it, it can do Kerry, the Man -- and Kerry, the Nominee -- no good service by reminding people that we not only remember JFK with reverence but we see Kerry as "jfk" -- smaller, lower-case, "less than" the truly upper case JFK in every way. Wouldn't it be better to make NO COMPARISON AT ALL? Surely, JK is just as dignified a moniker, and it doesn't say "same initials as THE GREAT ONE, but I ain't him, and never will be." Just a thought. I know he invites that comparison, but I am feeling it is time for us to save him from himself. Plus, IT MAKES ME WINCE fercripessake! Time to knock it off, I tell you!
[2] The Bush Administration/Atrocities at Abu Ghraib. The Bush Administration is a disgusting group of individuals, no doubt about it. Not a complete soul in the bunch. And, the atrocities at Abu Ghraib were/are/always will be a horrific abomination of epic proportions, and one that should make Americans everywhere hang their heads in SHAME.
But, IT IS NOT THE SAME AS WHAT HAPPENED IN NAZI GERMANY. Not yet, anyway. We are ONE ELECTION AWAY FROM MAKING IT SO. To vote for GWB&Co. after we know all of this will be an affirmation for his rein of terror on the people of Iraq and the rest of the world. It never ceases to amaze and disgust me that there are actually still people willing to vote for him at all, to be honest. But there are, and we must not let them outnumber us, get the vote out more effectively than we are able, or LIE/CHEAT/STEAL enough to affect this election. We cannot allow this election to say to the rest of the world AMERICA AGREES AND AFFIRMS THE ATROCITIES OF ABU GHRAIB. The very soul of our great nation is at stake here.
Apart from that entirely is the fact that like the JFK/jfk thing, it invites COMPARISON in which the horror of Abu Ghraib is diminished by they atrocities of the Holocaust. Up against that abomination, it seems to some smaller and less important. We owe the victims of Abu Ghraib better than that. Why is there a need to COMPARE the two things? The fact that this administration INVADED A SOVEREIGN COUNTRY UNPROVOKED, then proceeded to set up a series of events that abused and humiliated the Iraqis -- and brought about the horrors of Abu Graib is so mind-numbingly abhorrent that it needs not be compared to anything else unspeakable. We should all hate and condemn it for what it was. And, the fact that this war was PREDICATED ON A LIE by our government does not excuse us, or allow us to look away, OR DIMINISH WHAT HAPPENED THERE by COMPARING it to one of the worst atrocities ever perpetrated by one people on another people. Period. This should not become a case of THE HOLOCAUST v. a holocaust, or THE NAZIS v. the nazis. THIS IS AN ABOMINATION OF BIBLICAL PROPORTIONS -- pure and simple.
What we are seeing right now in Iraq -- as I said -- is happening predicated on a lie (okay, a LOT of lies) told to us by our government. It is the failings of this governement and its policies that led to Abu Ghraib. BUT IF WE ELECT THESE PEOPLE, knowing what we know as a nation, WE WILL AFFIRM WHAT HAS HAPPENED UP UNTIL NOW, we will send a message to the rest of the world that THE AMERICAN PEOPLE AGREE WITH WHAT BUSH HAS DONE, and THEN and ONLY THEN will it be another HOLOCAUST, my friends. We will have lost our souls. We will have allowed our own degradation and humiliation in fron of the rest of the world to be complete. So, fight as hard as you can NOT TO ALLOW THAT TO HAPPEN, and save the COMPARISON from having to be made.
[3] Edwards v. Clark for VP. There is no one on the face of this earth that thinks John Edwards would be the crappiest VP since Dan Quayle more than I do. Trust me. And there is no one who thinks the best VP in history would be our beloved General Clark more than I do. I'll arm-wrestle anyone, any time on this! But, as the days and weeks drag by waiting for freaking John Kerry to make his goddam selection, already -- I am beginning to find even the COMPARISON of The Prom King to The General an insult. THERE IS NO COMPARISON. To think of these two men being candidates for the same office is an affront to all that is decent and logical. Period. It needs to stop. These two men are not even from the same planet. The decision is for Kerry to make. I feel our time will be better used in praying (if you pray), meditating, visualizing -- whatever! -- that Kerry chooses correctly. And soon. Every day that goes by without Wes on his ticket officially, I think, is a day we are not fighting the fight we shoulf be fighting against the people we should be fighting. (It's late, I'm medicated, stay with me here...) But, when the Warthogs tell you that to support Clark is wrong, or when people like Ann Richards and James Carville push Edwards for the job, remember one irrefutable fact -- GENERAL CLARK IS THE FINEST, CLEAREST, MOST LOGICAL, STRONGEST, candidate for this job. If Kerry doesn't do the right thing about THIS, how will he ever do ANYTHING right? His choice will be a signal... to us, to the rest of the world.
Well, that's it for me.
Have a great day, and remember TO COMPARE IS TO INVITE COMPARISONS WE MAY NOT WANT TO HAVE MADE. Kerry will never be John Kennedy, Abu Ghraib (hopefully) will never be the attempted obliteration of an entire people (WE CANNOT ALLOW IT TO BE!), and John Edwards is not fit to be considered for the same office as Wesley Clark (never will be). Period.
A man can still be a good president without comparison to one of the greatest in history.
A horrific abomination will not be lessened by comparison to one of the worst in history.
A Prom King will only see more frivolous a choice next to a man like General Clark. Remember that. And, only Kerry can make that choice on our behalf.
Have a great weekend, and thanks for letting me have my say!
-- TC"
by C4Clark on 05/21/2004 08:38:55 AM EST
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I hope no one minds if I do this. TC asked me to post something she wrote last night while not being able to sleep. It is, I think, what you might call a "rant", and I'm not sure what the difference between this and actually blogging is (which she is not supposed to do, doctor's orders), but I see it as my fault for sitting at the computer in her room, and reading her what you are all writing here (edited with what I would like to think is my own good judgment.) So, here is what she wrote:
"NO COMPARISONS!
As you all know there are many things that just shock and appall me. Yeah, the Bushies are horrid. The war and the atrocities are horrendous. The economy is outrageous. Yadda, yadda, yadda. The beat just goes on with this band of thieves and gets worse every day.
Okay, that having been said, I want to tell you all that there is a new layer to my irritation lately, and it is one of COMPARISONS. They are driving me crazy -- a short drive, to be sure, but they get me there as efficiently as any of the abominations that are ticking away the days until this election.
[1] "JFK" v. "jfk". John Kerry is our nominee. The fact that he is not Wes has NOTHING TO DO with what I am about too say. As you all know I have met both JFK and jfk, and believe me whan I tell you that as great a guy as Kerry can be, he is NO GODDAM "JFK". Even with the nod to that being the lower case used for his initials, I find the COMPARISON offensive. And, to put a finer point on it, it can do Kerry, the Man -- and Kerry, the Nominee -- no good service by reminding people that we not only remember JFK with reverence but we see Kerry as "jfk" -- smaller, lower-case, "less than" the truly upper case JFK in every way. Wouldn't it be better to make NO COMPARISON AT ALL? Surely, JK is just as dignified a moniker, and it doesn't say "same initials as THE GREAT ONE, but I ain't him, and never will be." Just a thought. I know he invites that comparison, but I am feeling it is time for us to save him from himself. Plus, IT MAKES ME WINCE fercripessake! Time to knock it off, I tell you!
[2] The Bush Administration/Atrocities at Abu Ghraib. The Bush Administration is a disgusting group of individuals, no doubt about it. Not a complete soul in the bunch. And, the atrocities at Abu Ghraib were/are/always will be a horrific abomination of epic proportions, and one that should make Americans everywhere hang their heads in SHAME.
But, IT IS NOT THE SAME AS WHAT HAPPENED IN NAZI GERMANY. Not yet, anyway. We are ONE ELECTION AWAY FROM MAKING IT SO. To vote for GWB&Co. after we know all of this will be an affirmation for his rein of terror on the people of Iraq and the rest of the world. It never ceases to amaze and disgust me that there are actually still people willing to vote for him at all, to be honest. But there are, and we must not let them outnumber us, get the vote out more effectively than we are able, or LIE/CHEAT/STEAL enough to affect this election. We cannot allow this election to say to the rest of the world AMERICA AGREES AND AFFIRMS THE ATROCITIES OF ABU GHRAIB. The very soul of our great nation is at stake here.
Apart from that entirely is the fact that like the JFK/jfk thing, it invites COMPARISON in which the horror of Abu Ghraib is diminished by they atrocities of the Holocaust. Up against that abomination, it seems to some smaller and less important. We owe the victims of Abu Ghraib better than that. Why is there a need to COMPARE the two things? The fact that this administration INVADED A SOVEREIGN COUNTRY UNPROVOKED, then proceeded to set up a series of events that abused and humiliated the Iraqis -- and brought about the horrors of Abu Graib is so mind-numbingly abhorrent that it needs not be compared to anything else unspeakable. We should all hate and condemn it for what it was. And, the fact that this war was PREDICATED ON A LIE by our government does not excuse us, or allow us to look away, OR DIMINISH WHAT HAPPENED THERE by COMPARING it to one of the worst atrocities ever perpetrated by one people on another people. Period. This should not become a case of THE HOLOCAUST v. a holocaust, or THE NAZIS v. the nazis. THIS IS AN ABOMINATION OF BIBLICAL PROPORTIONS -- pure and simple.
What we are seeing right now in Iraq -- as I said -- is happening predicated on a lie (okay, a LOT of lies) told to us by our government. It is the failings of this governement and its policies that led to Abu Ghraib. BUT IF WE ELECT THESE PEOPLE, knowing what we know as a nation, WE WILL AFFIRM WHAT HAS HAPPENED UP UNTIL NOW, we will send a message to the rest of the world that THE AMERICAN PEOPLE AGREE WITH WHAT BUSH HAS DONE, and THEN and ONLY THEN will it be another HOLOCAUST, my friends. We will have lost our souls. We will have allowed our own degradation and humiliation in fron of the rest of the world to be complete. So, fight as hard as you can NOT TO ALLOW THAT TO HAPPEN, and save the COMPARISON from having to be made.
[3] Edwards v. Clark for VP. There is no one on the face of this earth that thinks John Edwards would be the crappiest VP since Dan Quayle more than I do. Trust me. And there is no one who thinks the best VP in history would be our beloved General Clark more than I do. I'll arm-wrestle anyone, any time on this! But, as the days and weeks drag by waiting for freaking John Kerry to make his goddam selection, already -- I am beginning to find even the COMPARISON of The Prom King to The General an insult. THERE IS NO COMPARISON. To think of these two men being candidates for the same office is an affront to all that is decent and logical. Period. It needs to stop. These two men are not even from the same planet. The decision is for Kerry to make. I feel our time will be better used in praying (if you pray), meditating, visualizing -- whatever! -- that Kerry chooses correctly. And soon. Every day that goes by without Wes on his ticket officially, I think, is a day we are not fighting the fight we shoulf be fighting against the people we should be fighting. (It's late, I'm medicated, stay with me here...) But, when the Warthogs tell you that to support Clark is wrong, or when people like Ann Richards and James Carville push Edwards for the job, remember one irrefutable fact -- GENERAL CLARK IS THE FINEST, CLEAREST, MOST LOGICAL, STRONGEST, candidate for this job. If Kerry doesn't do the right thing about THIS, how will he ever do ANYTHING right? His choice will be a signal... to us, to the rest of the world.
Well, that's it for me.
Have a great day, and remember TO COMPARE IS TO INVITE COMPARISONS WE MAY NOT WANT TO HAVE MADE. Kerry will never be John Kennedy, Abu Ghraib (hopefully) will never be the attempted obliteration of an entire people (WE CANNOT ALLOW IT TO BE!), and John Edwards is not fit to be considered for the same office as Wesley Clark (never will be). Period.
A man can still be a good president without comparison to one of the greatest in history.
A horrific abomination will not be lessened by comparison to one of the worst in history.
A Prom King will only see more frivolous a choice next to a man like General Clark. Remember that. And, only Kerry can make that choice on our behalf.
Have a great weekend, and thanks for letting me have my say!
-- TC"
Tuesday, May 18, 2004
(#144)
by Robbedvoter (Robbedvoter at forclark dot com) on 05/18/2004 02:03:49 PM EST
Parent | Reply
Felt good to see Alter praise Clark - this is the guy who was holding on dearly to his "rumorspreading about kerry and a woman" story from Drudge - the more we wrote him , the more self-righteous he felt.
Funny how this is the first time he mentions he saw Clark in new hampshire and he was ELECTRIC. Me thinks he smelt something. A dramatic U Turn.
by Robbedvoter (Robbedvoter at forclark dot com) on 05/18/2004 02:03:49 PM EST
Parent | Reply
Felt good to see Alter praise Clark - this is the guy who was holding on dearly to his "rumorspreading about kerry and a woman" story from Drudge - the more we wrote him , the more self-righteous he felt.
Funny how this is the first time he mentions he saw Clark in new hampshire and he was ELECTRIC. Me thinks he smelt something. A dramatic U Turn.
(#141) (Rated 5.00/1)
by noelschutz (noelschutz@yahoo.com) on 05/18/2004 01:59:52 PM EST
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Jimmy Carter a "self-described born again Christian."
They always dissed Carter, and honest and devout man. But what I don't get here is the "self-described". What is the alternative, "Described by others as a born again Christian"? "Other-described born again Christian."
Bush is one, too, but they do not put things like "self-described" when they speak of him as a Christian. People really have trouble with the "born again" thing I guess. A famous Church of England cleric was once asked by a street preacher if he had been born again. He replied, "I was borned again, I am being born again, and I shall be born again."
It is just a way of saying one has committed himself to being a Christian. In Jesus parable he meant it to mean one has to take a new view of life. It could have a mystical interpretation, but that is not necessary.
A pet peeve. I never say I am a born again Christian. I just say I am a Christian. When Luke says that the followers of Jesus were first called Christians in Antioch (as opposed to the Jewish Nazareans), he did not say they were first called born again Christians. So it is not necessary, but what is the problem. I am a moderate Democrat. I am a conservative Republican. I am a dedicated Zoastorian. I am a born again Christian. Sigh!
by noelschutz (noelschutz@yahoo.com) on 05/18/2004 01:59:52 PM EST
Rate this: - 1 2 3 4 5 + | Parent | Reply
Jimmy Carter a "self-described born again Christian."
They always dissed Carter, and honest and devout man. But what I don't get here is the "self-described". What is the alternative, "Described by others as a born again Christian"? "Other-described born again Christian."
Bush is one, too, but they do not put things like "self-described" when they speak of him as a Christian. People really have trouble with the "born again" thing I guess. A famous Church of England cleric was once asked by a street preacher if he had been born again. He replied, "I was borned again, I am being born again, and I shall be born again."
It is just a way of saying one has committed himself to being a Christian. In Jesus parable he meant it to mean one has to take a new view of life. It could have a mystical interpretation, but that is not necessary.
A pet peeve. I never say I am a born again Christian. I just say I am a Christian. When Luke says that the followers of Jesus were first called Christians in Antioch (as opposed to the Jewish Nazareans), he did not say they were first called born again Christians. So it is not necessary, but what is the problem. I am a moderate Democrat. I am a conservative Republican. I am a dedicated Zoastorian. I am a born again Christian. Sigh!
Saturday, May 15, 2004
After Wes wrote, TC's daughter answered:
(#100) (Rated 5.00/1)
by C4Clark on 05/15/2004 12:54:45 PM EST
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Anyone who doesn't believe in God, or that the Karma of good deeds returns to those who do them 1000-fold, should look to the timing of this e-mail as proof-postive both exist.
Thanks, Robbed. If this doesn't perk herself up, nothing will.
I wrote you back from her mailbox. I will read her what you wrote as soon as she opens her eyes.
(#100) (Rated 5.00/1)
by C4Clark on 05/15/2004 12:54:45 PM EST
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Anyone who doesn't believe in God, or that the Karma of good deeds returns to those who do them 1000-fold, should look to the timing of this e-mail as proof-postive both exist.
Thanks, Robbed. If this doesn't perk herself up, nothing will.
I wrote you back from her mailbox. I will read her what you wrote as soon as she opens her eyes.
Friday, May 14, 2004
Bremer says we'd leave Iraq if asked. best comment on DU:
MrBenchley (1000+ posts) Fri May-14-04 08:45 AM
Response to Original message
4. So Iraqis actually killing 700-plus Americans isn't a hint...
they don't want us there...but if Chimpy gets a nice polite note from the puppet government, he'll understand and pull out?
Wonder if Hallmark makes a card for such an occasion?
Then again, this unelected drunk got a memo that SAID "Bin Laden determined to strike within U.S." and couldn't figure out that it meant Bin Laden was determined to strike within the U.S.
And here's the pic of a request protest sign
MrBenchley (1000+ posts) Fri May-14-04 08:45 AM
Response to Original message
4. So Iraqis actually killing 700-plus Americans isn't a hint...
they don't want us there...but if Chimpy gets a nice polite note from the puppet government, he'll understand and pull out?
Wonder if Hallmark makes a card for such an occasion?
Then again, this unelected drunk got a memo that SAID "Bin Laden determined to strike within U.S." and couldn't figure out that it meant Bin Laden was determined to strike within the U.S.
And here's the pic of a request protest sign
Wednesday, May 12, 2004
Alquaeda made up on beheading tape
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1585675
On CNN just now was a woman - Olivia Nasser who is an Arabic translator, and was speaking re: the transcript of the Berg audio. Here are two very salient points she made:
1) The U.S. translation puts the phrase "al-queda" in. She was ADAMANT that the phrase was NOT "al-queda", but a similar sounding Arabic phrase which means (when translated) "one who sits and does nothing." Therefore, there was NO mention of al- queda by anyone speaking on that video.
2) After careful listening, her and her team are sure that the person speaking (said by the U.S. to be a Jordanian representative of al-queda) was NOT, as the accent he had was not Jordanian.
Watch these points die by nightfall.
All those who believe anything this government tells you, please buy this bridge.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1585675
On CNN just now was a woman - Olivia Nasser who is an Arabic translator, and was speaking re: the transcript of the Berg audio. Here are two very salient points she made:
1) The U.S. translation puts the phrase "al-queda" in. She was ADAMANT that the phrase was NOT "al-queda", but a similar sounding Arabic phrase which means (when translated) "one who sits and does nothing." Therefore, there was NO mention of al- queda by anyone speaking on that video.
2) After careful listening, her and her team are sure that the person speaking (said by the U.S. to be a Jordanian representative of al-queda) was NOT, as the accent he had was not Jordanian.
Watch these points die by nightfall.
All those who believe anything this government tells you, please buy this bridge.
Monday, May 10, 2004
letter to Morning Sedition - Air America after their interview with Dan Paine
Leave it to Dukakis' campaign manager who wants Kerry "not to get distracted by Bush's attacks" to push the personal injury lawyer as VP! Campaign is a trial, and Edwards would "prosecute" Bush! As a lawyer this is the most idiotic thing I heard.
Mind you, this "prosecutor" is the guy who voted 80% with Bush, would have started a war in Iraq and thinks 911 justified going in Iraq...
I thought I'd throw up hearing the old pablum about the mighty mythical undecided voter...
One question for Dukakis guy: is governing like a trial too?
here's an idea: let's have the guy who said this yesterday on Meet the press:
" I think there's a greater than 50/50 chance, let's say a 2:1 chance, of a catastrophic early end to this mission.(Iraq)"
Hint: he is a friend of the room.
Leave it to Dukakis' campaign manager who wants Kerry "not to get distracted by Bush's attacks" to push the personal injury lawyer as VP! Campaign is a trial, and Edwards would "prosecute" Bush! As a lawyer this is the most idiotic thing I heard.
Mind you, this "prosecutor" is the guy who voted 80% with Bush, would have started a war in Iraq and thinks 911 justified going in Iraq...
I thought I'd throw up hearing the old pablum about the mighty mythical undecided voter...
One question for Dukakis guy: is governing like a trial too?
here's an idea: let's have the guy who said this yesterday on Meet the press:
" I think there's a greater than 50/50 chance, let's say a 2:1 chance, of a catastrophic early end to this mission.(Iraq)"
Hint: he is a friend of the room.
Bush's "evildoers" them and "wrongdoers" us = Evangelical codespeak
Found this interesting nugget on christianity.com:
King David of Israel once wrote about "friendly fire." In the 37th Psalm he began with these words, "Do not fret because of evildoers, be not envious toward wrongdoers." The word fret means "to become heated." The idea was that someone did something that caused your blood to boil. Now there are two kinds of people who can get you all fired up. The Bible calls them evildoers and wrongdoers. Evildoers are people who just don't like you and will fire upon you anytime they have the opportunity. Wrongdoers on the other hand, are people who don't mean to hurt you but somehow it just happens. David was talking about "friendly fire." And, unfortunately, all of us are going to be burned by it from time to time.
http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:a2wlk_NSG5AJ:resources.christianity...
Not that I think Bush has ever even opened a bible, but no doubt he was advised by Hughes and/or Rove to insert these distinctive codewords to separate "us good Christians with those hellbound Muslims."
Found this interesting nugget on christianity.com:
King David of Israel once wrote about "friendly fire." In the 37th Psalm he began with these words, "Do not fret because of evildoers, be not envious toward wrongdoers." The word fret means "to become heated." The idea was that someone did something that caused your blood to boil. Now there are two kinds of people who can get you all fired up. The Bible calls them evildoers and wrongdoers. Evildoers are people who just don't like you and will fire upon you anytime they have the opportunity. Wrongdoers on the other hand, are people who don't mean to hurt you but somehow it just happens. David was talking about "friendly fire." And, unfortunately, all of us are going to be burned by it from time to time.
http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:a2wlk_NSG5AJ:resources.christianity...
Not that I think Bush has ever even opened a bible, but no doubt he was advised by Hughes and/or Rove to insert these distinctive codewords to separate "us good Christians with those hellbound Muslims."
Sunday, May 02, 2004
(#118) (No rating)
by Arky Sue (A Proud Wes Clark Democrat!) on 05/02/2004 05:44:04 PM EST
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I'm back from Cinco do Mayo-lots of fun. Wes said he always tells questioners that he's not interested in VP so they will quit asking him about it. That was at the 4-8-04 Reception when someone asked him about his response (wasn't me but I heard him say it.)
by Arky Sue (A Proud Wes Clark Democrat!) on 05/02/2004 05:44:04 PM EST
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I'm back from Cinco do Mayo-lots of fun. Wes said he always tells questioners that he's not interested in VP so they will quit asking him about it. That was at the 4-8-04 Reception when someone asked him about his response (wasn't me but I heard him say it.)
Saturday, May 01, 2004
DU: Junkdrawer
the untimely demise of the phrase "They Hate Us Because of Our Freedoms." Although the catchy phrase showed great promise, apparently it was greatly affected by the death of its sister phrase "Mission Accomplished." While "THUBOF" lately began demonstrating the same symptoms of irrepressible press laughter at its utterance, the death knell was sounded after the publication of the now infamous torture photos from the Iraqi prison.
It is reported that surviving sibling phrases "Evil Doers" and "Axis of Evil" have recently exhibited symptoms of disorientation and confusion, but are in stable--though guarded--condition.
(This report was written in great part by my partner who has yet to choose a nom de plume.)
the untimely demise of the phrase "They Hate Us Because of Our Freedoms." Although the catchy phrase showed great promise, apparently it was greatly affected by the death of its sister phrase "Mission Accomplished." While "THUBOF" lately began demonstrating the same symptoms of irrepressible press laughter at its utterance, the death knell was sounded after the publication of the now infamous torture photos from the Iraqi prison.
It is reported that surviving sibling phrases "Evil Doers" and "Axis of Evil" have recently exhibited symptoms of disorientation and confusion, but are in stable--though guarded--condition.
(This report was written in great part by my partner who has yet to choose a nom de plume.)
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