Not Your Sweetie

http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0406/27/cp.00.html
TRANSCRIPT FROM CNN's appearance last night:
CAROL LIN, CNN CENTER, ATLANTA: I'm Carol Lin at the CNN Center in Atlanta.
So, can the United States and its Iraqi allies win this guerilla war in Iraq? Will this handover of sovereignty help them do that? And is there a clear exit strategy for the U.S. forces in Iraq?
Two points of view tonight. I'm joined from Little Rock, Arkansas by former NATO commander and recent Democratic presidential candidate, General Wesley Clark.
And in Washington, a member of the Pentagon's Defense Policy Board, Ken Adelman.
Good evening, gentlemen.
First to you, General Clark. Has the administration done anything right in Iraq? Can you see a light at the end of the tunnel?
GEN. WESLEY CLARK, FORMER NATO COMMANDER: Well, I think the administration has moved in the direction which John Kerry and I and others had been advocating for a long time, which is to try to bring in the international community and use international authority to help take away some of the stigma of occupation in Iraq.
The administration didn't have an exit strategy, didn't have a plan for success. Now they have a plan. We don't know if it's going to be successful.
But, yes, they're attempting to cope with the situation, and they're moving in the direction which we've advised them to do.
LIN: Ken, fundamentally, what is going to change after the handover starting July 1?
KEN ADELMAN, DEFENSE POLICY BOARD: It's their country. That's the main thing that's going to change.
And so, Iraqis have to think, who are the resisters and what are they resisting? They're not resisting American occupation, because now they have an Iraqi government. And they're on the way to have a democratically elected Iraqi government.
So, what are they blowing up? And for what purpose?
And what you can say is, they're nihilists, they're anarchists. They're terrorists. And they're blowing up nothing that is going to help Iraq. They're blowing up a lot of Iraqis, that is going to hurt the future of their country.
LIN: General Clark, Prime Minister Allawi has made it pretty clear that he wants the Iraqi forces to secure the country. Obviously, these Iraqi forces need a lot of training.
Is this the right strategy to fight this kind of insurgency that's going on right now?
CLARK: I think, if it's possible to build forces, that it could help unify the country.
But this is a deep problem, because you've got not only terrorists in there, you've got people who are fighting for their own self interests. You've got Kurds who are ready to declare independence at the slightest opportunity, Sunnis who are afraid of Shiite domination and some in the Shiite community who are allied with Iran. So there's a multiplicity of motives. This is a stewpot of violence in there. It's going to be very difficult for anybody to sort this out democratically.
LIN: General, you know that President Bush is going to the NATO summit in Istanbul this coming week to ask the allies there to contribute, if not troops, at least military advisors - trainers on the ground for those Iraqi forces.
What in NATO's history of warfare has ever compared with the insurgency fight that we're seeing on the ground in Iraq right now?
CLARK: Well, NATO has done a pretty good job of helping bring peace to the Balkans, both in Bosnia and Kosovo. It's got its forces now in Afghanistan.
Frankly, it doesn't have a lot of forces left over to put into Iraq. But it could help by training, and I hope it will do so.
LIN: Ken, is there a clear exit strategy, do you think? I mean, what would be the precipitator to the U.S. forces withdrawing completely from Iraq?
ADELMAN: Well, Carol, the point of the exercise is not to have an exit strategy. The point of the exercise is to hand over an Iraq that is going to be freely elected, at least is safe and is on the road to progress.
Iraq has something today that it did not have for the last 30 years, and that is hope - hope that they can create a better future. And under Saddam Hussein, it was just hopeless.
LIN: Ken, ...
ADELMAN: And Saddam ...
LIN: ... but a hope based on what? I mean, we've got five ...
ADELMAN: Hope based on ...
LIN: ... hostages right now being held in that country.
ADELMAN: Right.
LIN: And the militants seeming to be running free, kidnapping at will, killing at will.
What can the Iraqi people, much less the American people with forces on the ground, look for in terms of hope right now?
ADELMAN: They can look for hope that the Iraqi is going to take over as prime ministership on Wednesday. There's going to be an Iraqi president. There's going to be on the road to democratic leadership. And, therefore, it's going to be their country. And that is a very different thing than it has been for the last three decades.
You are absolutely right, Carol, that there are terrorists there. And they are people blowing up and taking hostages.
They are - we know that this is the age of terrorism. We know that this is a worldwide problem, and they're focused on Iraq today.
LIN: General Clark, several of the experts that I've spoken to today - take a look at the big picture of Iraq. Take a look at the fact that American forces have withdrawn from Fallujah.
And I have spoken to a journalist who was embedded with the insurgents in Fallujah. He says that the terrorists there are building bombs freely, training their future terrorists freely.
What he envisions is that Fallujah becomes the equivalent of the northwest province in Pakistan, that it is given over to the insurgents, and the rest of Iraq, 80 percent victory for the United States, the U.S. coalition, to say that, yes, Iraq is now a democratic country.
CLARK: Well, we're going to have to go back into Fallujah with forces. But I think you've got to also look at the big picture in the region, Carol.
You have Iran trying to build a nuclear weapon. What we're now doing in Iraq is, we're totally bogged down with the United States Army.
This serves the Iranians' interests. We are distracted while they are building a nuclear weapon.
And when we need to muster our resources and work with the Europeans to put the pressure on the Iranians to come clean, instead we're begging the Europeans to come and help us get out of a mess we created for ourselves in Iraq.LINK
So, in my view, Iraq was a strategic blunder by the United States. If we'd look for who was really helping terrorists, we would have gone directly at Iran right after 9/11. They are connected. They were collaborating with al Qaeda.
And we have a real problem on our hands in Iraq right now.
LIN: Ken Adelman?
ADELMAN: Now, listen. I talked to Wes Clark many times after 9/11, and I never heard him saying that we should invade Iran. And I did hear him say that under the right conditions we should go into Iraq.
Now, I think his position has been all over the lot, just like John Kerry's position has been all over the lot, voting for the resolution, voting against the resolution, voting - saying we can't cut and run, voting for zero funding so that we cut and run. I mean, there has been a great inconsistency.
But if Wes Clark was saying after 9/11, that we should go in with force into Iran, that is a startling thing to say, and I'd like to see some evidence that ...
LIN: Well, gentlemen, ...
CLARK: Well, I'd like to have that discussion, Carol, just a moment here, if I could.
Number one, I said we should be working against Iran. I didn't say invade.
But now we don't have the military options, because we are committed in a way we didn't have to be committed.
Number two, I would have supported the president taking the Iraq situation to the United Nations. I would have never given him a blank check to invade Iraq as he did. It was necessary, ...
ADELMAN: No, but John Kerry ...
CLARK: Just a minute.
ADELMAN: ... but John Kerry XX ...
CLARK: Iraq was not an imminent threat.
LIN: Gentlemen, ...
CLARK: And, Ken, ...
ADELMAN: But John Kerry voted for the ...
LIN: Our intention, gentlemen ...
CLARK: You said it would be a cakewalk, Ken. It hasn't been a cakewalk.
ADELMAN: John Kerry voted for the resolution.
CLARK: It won't be. Carol, this is a very important question, and I hope that we'll be able to look at it in a regional context, because that's the way we must deal with it.
LIN: All right, Ken. So, in conclusion here, what do you think the United States needs to do next?
ADELMAN: Well, I think that what the United States is doing is trying to have the Iraqis step up to the plate and take more of their own security, take more of their own future into their own hands.
I think it is absolutely critical to keep the date of next January for the free elections going. And it is absolutely critical to have a consistent policy.
And, tell you the truth, Wes Clark and John Kerry have been all over the lot ...
LIN: All right. I have to leave it there. CLARK: Carol, I don't think ...
LIN: We don't mean to go down the campaign trail tonight, gentlemen. Thank you very much.
(CROSSTALK)
LIN: Ken Adelman, thank you very much. General Wesley Clark. The two of you will have to continue on your own time.
ADELMAN: Great. OK.